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RxPG :: View topic - USMLE Dreams Over for Indian Students  
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cdrin
Aim NEET PG 2012

USMLE Dreams Over for Indian Students [#]
The government on Monday said any doctor going to the US for higher medical studies would have to sign a bond with it before leaving and honour the document by returning to India after finishing the study period.

“From this year onwards, any student going for further medical education to the U.S. will have to give us a bond that he will come back after finishing the studies. In the last three years, 3000 doctors went abroad for studies and did not return. Now if a student does not come back from the US, he won’t be allowed to practice there,” Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad said.

He said the U.S. from this year onwards is insisting on a government NOC to every student enrolling with an American institute for studies.

“No other country except the U.S. is asking for this NOC. Those who apply to go to the US for studies from 2012 will have to give us a bond saying they would come back after finishing the studies. If they don’t fulfill the bond obligation, we can write to the U.S. to deny the student permission to practice,” Mr. Azad told reporters in New Delhi.

The minister also expressed the hope that the MCI will give its approval to the proposed three-year Bachelor of Rural Health Care course, which seeks to create a separate cadre of public health professionals in the country to serve in rural areas. He said the doctors’ organisations were not interested in the course.

“Doctors’ organisations are opposing the course. I have no hesitation in saying that they have a vested interest to increase their practice,” Mr. Azad said.

Mr. Azad said there was a paucity of doctors in primary health centres as doctors only wanted to stay in urban areas.

“The rural health care course was ready two years ago. The curriculum is also ready. States are free to implement the course, as Assam is doing, but we wanted the MCI’s recognition to ensure uniform standards for the course across India. We hope the MCI will move fast on it,” he said.

The course, Mr. Azad said, would create professionals above the level of paramedics and below the level of MBBS doctors.

The move is aimed at not just taming the quacks, who have a field day in rural areas in the absence of adequate medical facilities there, but also provide good medical aid to the rural population at their doorstep.

It is being opposed by doctors’ lobby as patients from rural areas rush to private practitioners in urban areas, even as doctors’ organisations feel the creation of a new set of professionals would confuse the population and lead to devaluing the doctors, official sources said.

UNANSWERED: Enrollment Begins for Express Research Workshop!

cdrin
Aim NEET PG 2012

Don't choose MD Medicine for doing USMLE. UPA GOVT Bans Indi
The government on Monday said any doctor going to the US for higher medical studies would have to sign a bond with it before leaving and honour the document by returning to India after finishing the study period.

“From this year onwards, any student going for further medical education to the U.S. will have to give us a bond that he will come back after finishing the studies. In the last three years, 3000 doctors went abroad for studies and did not return. Now if a student does not come back from the US, he won’t be allowed to practice there,” Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad said.

He said the U.S. from this year onwards is insisting on a government NOC to every student enrolling with an American institute for studies.

“No other country except the U.S. is asking for this NOC. Those who apply to go to the US for studies from 2012 will have to give us a bond saying they would come back after finishing the studies. If they don’t fulfill the bond obligation, we can write to the U.S. to deny the student permission to practice,” Mr. Azad told reporters in New Delhi.

The minister also expressed the hope that the MCI will give its approval to the proposed three-year Bachelor of Rural Health Care course, which seeks to create a separate cadre of public health professionals in the country to serve in rural areas. He said the doctors’ organisations were not interested in the course.

“Doctors’ organisations are opposing the course. I have no hesitation in saying that they have a vested interest to increase their practice,” Mr. Azad said.

Mr. Azad said there was a paucity of doctors in primary health centres as doctors only wanted to stay in urban areas.

“The rural health care course was ready two years ago. The curriculum is also ready. States are free to implement the course, as Assam is doing, but we wanted the MCI’s recognition to ensure uniform standards for the course across India. We hope the MCI will move fast on it,” he said.

The course, Mr. Azad said, would create professionals above the level of paramedics and below the level of MBBS doctors.

The move is aimed at not just taming the quacks, who have a field day in rural areas in the absence of adequate medical facilities there, but also provide good medical aid to the rural population at their doorstep.

It is being opposed by doctors’ lobby as patients from rural areas rush to private practitioners in urban areas, even as doctors’ organisations feel the creation of a new set of professionals would confuse the population and lead to devaluing the doctors, official sources said.


doxo
Aim JIPMER

Doctors going to U.S. for studies will have to sign BOND
The government on Monday said any doctor going to the US for higher medical studies would have to sign a bond with it before leaving and honour the document by returning to India after finishing the study period.

“From this year onwards, any student going for further medical education to the U.S. will have to give us a bond that he will come back after finishing the studies. In the last three years, 3000 doctors went abroad for studies and did not return. Now if a student does not come back from the US, he won’t be allowed to practice there,” Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad said.

He said the U.S. from this year onwards is insisting on a government NOC to every student enrolling with an American institute for studies.

“No other country except the U.S. is asking for this NOC. Those who apply to go to the US for studies from 2012 will have to give us a bond saying they would come back after finishing the studies. If they don’t fulfill the bond obligation, we can write to the U.S. to deny the student permission to practice,” Mr. Azad told reporters in New Delhi.

The minister also expressed the hope that the MCI will give its approval to the proposed three-year Bachelor of Rural Health Care course, which seeks to create a separate cadre of public health professionals in the country to serve in rural areas. He said the doctors’ organisations were not interested in the course.

“Doctors’ organisations are opposing the course. I have no hesitation in saying that they have a vested interest to increase their practice,” Mr. Azad said.

Mr. Azad said there was a paucity of doctors in primary health centres as doctors only wanted to stay in urban areas.

“The rural health care course was ready two years ago. The curriculum is also ready. States are free to implement the course, as Assam is doing, but we wanted the MCI’s recognition to ensure uniform standards for the course across India. We hope the MCI will move fast on it,” he said.

The course, Mr. Azad said, would create professionals above the level of paramedics and below the level of MBBS doctors.

The move is aimed at not just taming the quacks, who have a field day in rural areas in the absence of adequate medical facilities there, but also provide good medical aid to the rural population at their doorstep.

It is being opposed by doctors’ lobby as patients from rural areas rush to private practitioners in urban areas, even as doctors’ organisations feel the creation of a new set of professionals would confuse the population and lead to devaluing the doctors, official sources said.

Keywords: Union Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad, U.S., higher studies, health education, doctors
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fionashrek


can you post the link pls!!!


cdrin
Aim NEET PG 2012

fionashrek wrote:
can you post the link pls!!!



http ://www.thehindu. com/news/national/article3345581.ece


embolus
Aim USMLE Step 3

Oh What a pitty ..This Bond is tying up us in every way..


dr78
Aim USMLE Step 1

“No other country except the U.S. is asking for this NOC. Those who apply to go to the US for studies from 2012 will have to give us a bond saying they would come back after finishing the studies. If they don’t fulfill the bond obligation, we can write to the U.S. to deny the student permission to practice,” Mr. Azad told reporters in New Delhi.

So this article is a bit confusing , esp. where it says, "US is asking NOC".
Where is US asking?? This is something India wants and is asking!
BTW, we are in a democratic country , and what is all this bond?? I understand that India wants more drs, but forcing someone to come back is not a way to achieve it.

Also the 2nd topic it touches upon is new medical staff of paramedics. I don't mind that if it 's going to help the rural population. Yes, it is going to confuse the rural population, so it might be a good idea that this new grp of medics be like a dr's team , and not be working alone..that's how it is in US. Every dr. has a team. This would not lead to any confusion,and will take the load off o dr, plus be best for the patients.

"doctors’ organisations feel the creation of a new set of professionals would confuse the population and lead to devaluing the doctors, official sources said.

That statement is very funny...I don't know why some ppl think that, it is going to "devalue doctors" !


cdrin
Aim NEET PG 2012

Strong reaction to Ghulab Nabi Azad statement on Bond for Indian doctors studying in US

Comments:


Mr. Minister, Have you succeeded first in the compulsory rural services of the medicos in India? Can you prohibit the ministers and your high commands from taking medical treatment abroad? Will you be able to implement the new proposal effectively? I think it is just a gimmick to fool the people.

from: Ramamoorthy
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 17:59 IST

I am very very happy for this and may be we should do this for those who come to USA for PhD after IIT stint. Any one studying from government money should compulsorily serve in India for 5 years. Am also sad, the government did not do suo moto, but because USA wanted to, to protect American doctors - not Indian patients. On a related but side note, I am very curious, why should people with MBBS call themselves Dr. Its Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery right. In every other field one has to complete, Bachelors, Master's and / or PhD to address themselves as Dr. In USA also the students go through 4 year college after high school and then enroll in MD program to earn their Doctorate in Medicine. It's only in India I see that people with Just an MBBS degree, which is not even displayed (as is required by law in USA) call themselves Dr. May be if government rules on this too, we may get better doctors!

from: sriram
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:00 IST

So this minister says "Now if a student does not come back from the US, he won't be allowed to practice there," If he does not come back from the US, how CAN he practice in India? Can one be at two places at the same time? I've never heard of that! Besides - this is pure politics. What ideas does the minister have, to retain doctors in India?

from: Rama Seshadri
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:14 IST

Its a good move by the GOI to get a bond signed by doctors. Now can we get the engineers back to India too?

from: Vignesh Nemana
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:16 IST

A good move The Govt. spends crores of rupees on educating the medicos but they do not want to serve the nation If they had resources let them go to west even at the starting level of the Medical education or if they do not have let them study some other subject and remain india It is high treason to leave India after getting a medical degree

from: ram
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:25 IST

What a draconian course of action to impose bonds on doctors only! To ask to repay educational costs may be fair, but return?? If it is to protect 'brain drain' why does it not apply to other professionals (IT, Engineers, Finance/Banking staff, MBAs), in fact everyone?? The doctors study for the longest number of years of ANY profession, put in very long hours (often to the detriment of their family lives), without exception work for the benefit of mankind, and they WORK to earn their money - whether in India or abroad. THIS UNFAIR POLICY SMACKS OF VINDICTIVENESS & ENVY. It should be resisted. Before any restrictive employment practices like this is enforced, which probably infringes human rights, law of the land must be enforced first!! All BLACK MONEY stashed by tax-avoiders (in many cases by plundering the nation and the citizens) must be brought back, and all law-breakers (thieves?) put behind bars. These people have stolen national wealth, not performed any service to the nation!

from: D Mahapatra
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:28 IST

A good move from the government but at the same time government should provide the necessary institutions and infrastructure to them to excel in the field especailly in the Research...

from: Ramakrishna
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:37 IST

Doing a Masters or Doctorate in the US is costly. If, after a student completes his degree in the US, has to come back, he will be in huge debt. One of the main reasons why students work in the USA after completing their degree is to earn good money for a comfortable living and also to REPAY THEIR STUDENT LOAN. With this bond, the Government is only forcing the middle class into astronomical debts.

from: Deepak Krishnamurthy
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:37 IST

Hi Sriram,
Do not criticise Indian doctors. Also, do not compare them with USA doctors. In India, we follow medical education based on UK practice. Doctors in UK have Dr title with a degree in MBBS. And healthcare in UK is the best in the world and healthcare in USA, I believe is worst than in India, eventhough they have made many advances in the medical field.

from: Irumporrai
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:42 IST

Simply restricting is not the good solution. Today Doctors and tomorrow some other professionals??
Our policy makers should identify the root casue.
Why the professionals are moving to other countries? What is lacking in India? The policy makers should think in this way and have to come up with better solutions.


from: Ramakrishna
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:53 IST

Good initiative by government.


from: Noorul
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 18:58 IST

One thing government can do is get out of the education business and
allow unlimited private medical colleges.

from: james
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:14 IST

This is the most stupid thing I heard in a long time, unless the
press report is missing something. Studying medicine in US is very
expensive. If a doctor from India is arranging for this expense (by
taking loans, selling property, borrowing from friends/parents, etc.)
then he/she should then be able to practice in US to recover. However,
if the person goes to study abroad on Government scholarship (full or
part) then the govt. should impose the bond on them. A blanket bond on
everyone would be the dumbest thing to do, and it would never work.
The same principle can be applied to IIT/IIM students where we spend
govt. money. If someone gets govt. scholarship he has to serve the
nation for a few years before moving on. That way both parties get
something out of it.

from: Devasish
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:17 IST

The Health Minister has taken the right initiative for improvement of national health & health manpower. If it is not done then ultimate bebefit of trained manpower will go to USA. If you are Indian, back to serve your nation. During my training I was also lured in USA in 1996 but I have rejected that offer and opted to serve my India.

from: Kalky
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:17 IST

Rationally, this should be extended to all degrees from government institutions, that are subsidised. perhaps that will start a debate to remove government subsidies to universities and instead change to a system of government loans so the loan is forgiven if a graduate works within the country for 5 years.

from: I.C.Nito
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:21 IST

Educational cost for becoming doctor is very high. Common public bears this load thru taxation. We cannot compare medical education with any other field. It is unique & distinct. Welcome step by govt but at the same time, govt need to give more powerful commitments on UHC & rural doctors schemes.

from: Kumar
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:34 IST

This is not the right way to deal the issue of scarcity of doctors.
Government is just suppressing the freedom of Indian citizens. I really feel this as 'Unconstitutional'.
Government should not function like a corporate company. It should provide good opportunities to doctors rather than forcing them to stay in India. How can India develop with out improving our resources?
The productivity of any individual will be very high when he is working with his heart.


from: adi
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:35 IST

I know many fresh medical graduates and even some postgraduate diploma
holders without work and suffering! Many who have some kind of work are
just "duty doctors" (mostly night duty) with a pay of 10000 rupees to
25000 rupees per month, and they just handle admission and discharge.

Will the government guarantee work consistent with the qualifications,
skills and needs of the doctors?

from: RAMU
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:45 IST

Do same for Engineers from IIT .We do not get benefit single penny
from these people who go in USA and just serve as employee for life
time in country .We should encourage them to come back and do
business to uplift more people from poverty !
80% of IIT people do not live India so what is benefit of expeding
lacks of rupees on their education through government funds ?
Proof for my statement is to check scientist from ISRO not 10% of
people are from IIT .


from: Nilesh Salpe
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:47 IST

The Hindu should investigate this decision taken by the government. First off, the
doctors trained in India who leave to USA are not a uniform entity. They fall in to
different categories: those who enter residency (doctor training) in USA on a J-1
Visa, those who enter on an H1B visa and those who already have a US green card.
The US is asking for an NOC only for those who are on J1 Visa. H1Bs and Green
card holders do NOT need an NOC from Indian government to enter training. That
means, some are treated differently than others at the outset itself. If you look
closely, those who are on J1 do not have a laid out support system in the US
meaning no spouse that can sponsor a green card for them and no family member,
etc. So, they end up at the mercy of the US & Indian governments and end up
requiring this NOC. So, if the India government is making them write a bond, it
mean it is taking advantage of the hapless. How do you plan to make the H1Bs and
green card holders pay back to India?

from: nijam
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:48 IST

This is a slap in the face of Indians. How can Indian government accept such conditions on Indian citizens? We are living in a global village and people move about to which ever place offers them better facilities. There are no government jobs for doctors. The Post graduate positions are not on par with what is available abroad. Corporate hospitals give low salaries, with no job security. Villages leaders and politicians are corrupt. Medicine is a life long investment, and doctors toil, for long hours, to qualify, and train to become doctors.
Indian government is playing second fiddle to the US government to deny opportunities of settlement to its citizens. GOI should work towards establishing national health institutes of the calibre of AIIMS in each and every district of India. Health is low down the priority in our country and corporate hospitals are filling in the vacuum left vacant by our corrupt governments.

Globalization makes no sense,when people are restricted from moving.

from: Dr RKRAO REBBAPRAGADA
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 19:50 IST

Dear Sriram. Have you been to a village? Just a query. The first line of heathcare giver is a quack aka the steroid maama.And you are telling me that a 30 (or is it 35)plus 'better' doctor with a family would work in a village wholeheartedly. Trust me an mbbs graduate can do a good job in the villages. Why trust me? cause im 'just an mbbs' doing the rural bond and have absolutely no qualms about it. But i would not want to do the bond after my higher studies (unless I've been sponsored or reserved) be practical!!!

from: Jacob Abraham
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:01 IST

The actual form/implementation of this kind of restriction may be debatable, but I applaud the start of a move to stem brain drain. I also ask that this be extended to many other professions, and that the government consider another option--requiring every citizen to discharge some sort of compulsory civil and humanitarian duty for 1 or 2 years before they can be allowed to emigrate. It would stop the devlauation of citizenship I see all around today.
The objections based on debt are selfish. What of your debt to India? If medical education in India were that expensive, perhaps those objectors would value it as much as they value education in the US? If you cannot afford it, why go?
BTW, I came abroad for postgraduate study and I am fully conscious of the enormous debt I owe to India for my education and selfhood. Everything I have gained from the US has been returned in the form of teaching and community service. Why should I not pay India back? Nothing should be free.

from: Dableena
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:08 IST

This action is good by the minister. Because how many doctors and
engineers take the benefit of government and doing the courses and
serving there in US. This is not at all good actually this is cheating.
Not only to government but also to the people of India. Strict action
should follow to regulate this brain flow.

from: PAUL MATHEW
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:07 IST

This is to answer Sriram's side comment - Why an MBBS calls themselves as Doctors like PhD. Doctor is originally given as a title for the healing profession - even for an LMP. Since they had to do an intensive study of the subject, later other subjects like Philosophy was also givenPhD and called a Doctor. Well, for a person studying Engineering, how come you call them Doctor of Philosophy, It should be Doctorate of Engineering.

from: Bala N. Aiyer
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:07 IST

Another failed policy in the making. So what if the person is not allowed to practice in the USA? There are a hundred other countries that will welcome a doctor qualified from the USA. And as pointed out by many, nobody will be in a position to return immediately to India after accumulating large student loans for education in dollars. A few years of employment overseas is a must for these people. The real beneficiaries of this short sighted policy would be other countries ranging from Canada to the Carribean.

from: Viswanath
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:15 IST

This just shows how far the UPA govt is degraded, playing tricks like this to retain Doctors only back fire on you. so What about the IIT's studenta gradute from IIT which uses most of govt funding and then left to foreign companies before they even graduate and for that you all ppl feel proud that out students got a job at this company in this scountry for this much salary.

from: Madhu
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:15 IST

I think this is because the "US" wants it this way - not because the Indian government want it.

Anyway, many doctors from UK returned (and are returning) to India as there are better opportunities for them currently in India rather than in UK. More so as the UK government quickly changed the goal posts recently and it is difficult for any non EU doctor to get any decent medical training.

ALSO not many are taking the UK exams or training as they know they wouldn't get a good job in UK currently. - a situation unlikely to change over next 10 years or so.

I think Indian government needs to concentrate on the "carrots" for these doctors (engineers, IT professionals etc) rather than the "sticks" to curtail the brain drain.



from: Geetha
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:17 IST

Mr. Minister, have you wondered if this is constitutional or not? Why don't you liberalize medicine in India and see how doctors shall flock back to our shores?

from: Narahari Rao
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:17 IST

I thought India was democracy where Citizens have right to choose.
It is ironical that Health Ministers last name is 'Azad'(Free).

If govt incurring losses they may demand compensation from students who studied at govt expense. Noway they can enforce Bonded Labor.

Such Draconian laws will make even more students/talent to leave the Country. Create favorable environment for Doctors/Engineers, professionals. Every govt research institute is marred by corruption, cast based reservation, bureaucracy.

No wonder India is far behind in R&D. With the Ministers like Azad we will be behind for a good time to come.

from: sree
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:19 IST

Excellent decision. The government must build new tertiary level government hospitals in rural areas. This will allow medical pratitioners to provide state of art healthcare in rural areas.

from: Shyam
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:19 IST

Before asking them to come home, did you ever think what kind of quality education your providing for the students in india, In Andhra pradesh an OC male student needs to get a rank of around 600 state wide to get a seat in MBBS, so the people who can afford to pay donations will go to college here and students who cant afford to pay money go abroad like USA and china, and the same applies for PG entrance too, how many seats does the govt providing for the Jr doctors for their PG's. dont try to punish the students for the mistake made by the govt. develop the quality of education and opportunities at home, if you do nobody leaves.

from: madhu
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:23 IST

Such restrictions only serve to increase the victims' distaste for India and her skewered politicians. Restrictions such as these make me want to get out of India, for today, they say this. Who knows? Tomorrow, they might take away my right to practice outside my hometown, or something equally ridiculous.

Dear politician, use your brain a little, and find out the root cause of the brain drain. Take useful steps towards making practice in India more attractive. Like supporting high quality teaching and research. Take away bureaucracy and corruption in the government health setup. Make appointments and promotions more transparent. Stop politicians from interfering with the practice of medicine. Come up with a better system of healthcare.

Dear health minister, please make every citizen use toilets and give safe drinking water. These will do more good than any such publicity seeking gimmicks, which are a criminal waste of time. Yours and mine.

from: Prithiv
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:24 IST

Doctors spend their own cash for studies in Inidia and abroad these days..and its quite a lot of cash too...we take loans to complete our education..the Indian government has not done anything for us..not a single penny was spend on us..then how on earth can they implement such a rule???..this is not a dictatorship , its a dmocracy!!! and this is violation of the basic human right of following our dreams and doing what we want to do with our lives!!!..this government should go down..it has not done any good to anyone in this nation!!!ghulam nabi..have you even thought about half the things mentioned above before you start acting the false hero and send the nation into more debt????

from: Nishanth
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:24 IST

A good but not a well thought move. India has scarcity of Engineers and
other professionals too. A move to bring all of them back should be
initiated but the regulation should be a little relaxed. It costs about
$100000 to obtain a bachelors degree in engineering and if the person is
forced to return right after completion of studies, he may not be able
to pay even the interests on his loan. Also, government should consider
the fact that Indian job market remuneration is no where close to any
western country. I think this is being a little strict.

from: Utkarsh Raj
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:27 IST

we are not in a communist country, you cant forcifully decide future for doctors, this unconstitutional, if you want doctors to stay at home or come back provide the opportunities here an make them come back ny themselves.if you cant provide any favourable conditions at home then keep quiet. if you really care about your people do some thing about it but just dont behave like dictators, we are living in a democratic country for god sake. it doesnt make any differance between india and china if you do this, atleast chineese govt doesnt place any bans on students going for higher studies and chineese provides benifits and hs numerous traties with USA for their students. if you dont help your students how can you have your say in their future.

from: madhu
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:29 IST

Those of us not fortunate to have a reservation did not study with Govt.
money. Our parents spent money on us, took loans, borrowed money, sold
property etc. The only thing the Govt. did was ask those who worked hard
to stand at the back of the line and let the reserved (most of whom were
driven in to counselling by their own drivers in fancy cars)stand in
front of the line. Most of us are in huge debt and the Govt. saying that
they spent money on us is incorrect.

from: Raja
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:35 IST

all you geniuses govt funds only people with reservations and partly
those who study in govt colleges. there are tons of people who pay
5lakhs tuition for a free seat in pvt colleges. also people talking
about other degrees please kindly increase the number of jobs without
making people work like donkeys and giving them one rupee above minimum
wage. a ph.d is a doctor every where, also if they didn't teach you in
whatever special school you have been to. also if you didn't know none
of the organizations in our country fund for research.

from: sally
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:36 IST

Another political gimmick! If I pay money out of my own pocket and get a MBBS degree, then go to USA (again paying out of my own pocket), who is Ghulam Nabi Azad to tell me what to do. If you have some common sense, please make sure that there is no unemployment. leave the doctors alone.

from: Ranjit
Posted on: Apr 23, 2012 at 20:55 IST


mahendrakmt
Aim AIPGE 2015

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drsumitgill
Aim AIPGE 2013

congress govt will fall...


bittu58


Edited by: RxPG Team
Edit Reason: Abuse in forums not allowed according to TOS



neelima208
Aim USMLE Step 1

How did you come to know about this? I didnt see any kinda news about this, wasnt in the papers either


cdrin
Aim NEET PG 2012

neelima208 wrote:
How did you come to know about this? I didnt see any kinda news about this, wasnt in the papers either
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neelima208
Aim USMLE Step 1

@ cdrin
thanks for the information, Is it you have to return and work for some duration before u can go back and practice there or is it like you can never go and work again?


cdrin
Aim NEET PG 2012

Actually US requires NOC from Indian Govt. And Indian Govt does not want to give NOC. It is denial of right to work. So some legal case will go. Let us see what happens.Upsetting lot of people who gave up AIPGE prep for USMLE.
But let us wait. If this Govt is voted out and new BJP Govt comes rules may become normal and Govt may issue NOC.
Continue with prep and wait for further news. But it is a set back but dont lose hope


neelima208
Aim USMLE Step 1

I hate this stupid government anyway it cant stop anyone from going as such, and i saw a post of someone saying


The Hindu should investigate this decision taken by the government. First off, the doctors trained in India who leave to USA are not a uniform entity. They fall in to different categories: those who enter residency (doctor training) in USA on a J-1Visa, those who enter on an H1B visa and those who already have a US green card.
The US is asking for an NOC only for those who are on J1 Visa. H1Bs and Green card holders do NOT need an NOC from Indian government to enter training. That means, some are treated differently than others at the outset itself. If you look closely, those who are on J1 do not have a laid out support system in the US meaning no spouse that can sponsor a green card for them and no family member, etc. So, they end up at the mercy of the US & Indian governments and end up requiring this NOC. So, if the India government is making them write a bond, it mean it is taking advantage of the hapless. How do you plan to make the H1Bs and
green card holders pay back to India?


I hope this helps


AshB


neelima208 wrote:
I hate this stupid government anyway it cant stop anyone from going as such, and i saw a post of someone saying

First off, the doctors trained in India who leave to USA are not a uniform entity. They fall in to different categories: those who enter residency (doctor training) in USA on a J-1Visa, those who enter on an H1B visa and those who already have a US green card.
The US is asking for an NOC only for those who are on J1 Visa. H1Bs and Green card holders do NOT need an NOC from Indian government to enter training. That means, some are treated differently than others at the outset itself. If you look closely, those who are on J1 do not have a laid out support system in the US meaning no spouse that can sponsor a green card for them and no family member, etc. So, they end up at the mercy of the US & Indian governments and end up requiring this NOC. So, if the India government is making them write a bond, it mean it is taking advantage of the hapless. How do you plan to make the H1Bs and
green card holders pay back to India?

I am not sure of the details of this bond thing but above quote seems partly correct. People who need H1B visa or GC holders don't need any sort of NOC from India, unless a new requirement has been added. ECFMG website and NRMP website hasn't mentioned any update regarding this, so one has to assume that the minister is referring to NOC for J1 visa. The Indian consulate's website too mentions the bond for issuing NOC for J1 visa.

Now the second part of above statement about J1 visa seekers is quite inaccurate. Visa type (H1 or J1) that you get has little to do with support system unless you can get a green card via any route. But that is a different discussion altogether and we can skip it.


AshB


This whole news is ridiculous. First, at least until this point only J1 visa and maybe F1 visa seekers need an NOC, so it doesn't cover everyone (H1B, green card etc).

I won't go into encroachment of the fundamental rights by this.

The most ridiculous aspect is that reportedly there is a shortage of over 6 lakh doctors in the country. As per their estimates 3k have left in last 3 years. If they could stop every one in last 20 years even then it would be only 20-30k doctors. We would still need 5.7 lakh doctors. But they are making it sound like doctors going abroad is the sole reason for the poor state of healthcare in India! What govt is doing is trying to shift focus from its failures on every aspect in healthcare.

If they would spend a fraction of their energy on improving health infrastructure they wouldn't have to resort to such outrageous gimmicks. They don't even have infrastructure to utilize the expertise of the existing doctors and they want to show that they will add more to the workforce. Ask the doctors who are sitting in PHCs with extremely limited ability to manage patients, sometimes lacking even basic things like IV fluids or suture kits. I have had a chance to visit a few PHCs where some of my friends were working and I couldn't believe the horrifying state of affairs.

For this new half baked degree that they are planning they should have courses like how to suture using jute thread, use boiled water as IV fluid, use incense sticks to fumigate ORs etc! icon_smile.gif

Forgive the grave sarcasm but I don't see any intent from any govt year after year to improve the infrastructure. They all save their ass by squarely blaming the doctors for avoiding working in these shitholes called PHCs and such. And more surprisingly the public keeps buying into this rhetoric every single time!


bhambha
Aim USMLE Step 1

AshB wrote:
This whole news is ridiculous. First, at least until this point only J1 visa and maybe F1 visa seekers need an NOC, so it doesn't cover everyone (H1B, green card etc).

I won't go into encroachment of the fundamental rights by this.

The most ridiculous aspect is that reportedly there is a shortage of over 6 lakh doctors in the country. As per their estimates 3k have left in last 3 years. If they could stop every one in last 20 years even then it would be only 20-30k doctors. We would still need 5.7 lakh doctors. But they are making it sound like doctors going abroad is the sole reason for the poor state of healthcare in India! What govt is doing is trying to shift focus from its failures on every aspect in healthcare.

If they would spend a fraction of their energy on improving health infrastructure they wouldn't have to resort to such outrageous gimmicks. They don't even have infrastructure to utilize the expertise of the existing doctors and they want to show that they will add more to the workforce. Ask the doctors who are sitting in PHCs with extremely limited ability to manage patients, sometimes lacking even basic things like IV fluids or suture kits. I have had a chance to visit a few PHCs where some of my friends were working and I couldn't believe the horrifying state of affairs.

For this new half baked degree that they are planning they should have courses like how to suture using jute thread, use boiled water as IV fluid, use incense sticks to fumigate ORs etc! icon_smile.gif

Forgive the grave sarcasm but I don't see any intent from any govt year after year to improve the infrastructure. They all save their ass by squarely blaming the doctors for avoiding working in these shitholes called PHCs and such. And more surprisingly the public keeps buying into this rhetoric every single time!



I Agree with you, why are only doctors responsible for the poor state of healthcare in our contry?. .. . . what about all the malpractices on behalf of the politicians? . . .wat about the NRHM scam and innumerable others which we are not even aware of?. . . . wat can doctors possibly achieve wihout the required infrastucture?. . . . i feel helpless, and assume so do a lot of other people. . . if doctors are given a chance to go outside to practice, they wud be able to help the country in terms of more capital for charity and also practise telemedicine. Of the 35000 thousand doctors graduating each year if a 1000 go outside its only 3.5% of the workforce, wat does the government have to fear?. . . .if there is a shortage of doctors why not open a few more colleges and make medical education more accesible and affordable?
All these questions will probably never be answered. icon_sad.gif icon_redface.gif icon_eek.gif


bhambha
Aim USMLE Step 1

What a Bummer of a decision. . . . My heart bleeds for my mle buddies.


sivasubaiah
Aim UK Exams

So what if the person is not allowed to practice in the USA? There are a hundred other countries that will welcome a doctor qualified from the USA.The real beneficiaries of this short sighted policy would be other countries ranging from Canada to the Carribean and Middle east.


sivasubaiah
Aim UK Exams

Will Mr.Minister and Sonia Gandhi stay in India for medical treatments ? Why they run to USA for their own treatments ?Don't they have faith in Indian doctors ?


doctoraiims
Aim AIIMS

the prime reason why sonia gandhi is not bothered is cause we r indians and not her ppl i.e. italian. no soft corner for us. please vote anyother party but dont vote congress. otherwise we wll be NA GHARKE RAHENGE NA GHAATKE.


zulf
Aim Indian PG Exams

india needs more doctors
i myself had plans for MLE. but if i think again,india really needs doctors. india looses 3000 doctors every year to US,who dont return back,for obvious reasons. our government spent a lot on our educations,i think its our responsibility too to serve the nation we were born in


chelsi
Aim USMLE Step 1

ya....u r right,our country needs us.......but our govt is not really bothered abt us.....if they talk abt making rural services compulsory for us,why do they want to make it at mbbs level? why not open new medical colleges in rural areas so that more ppl can do pg in these hospitals and serve poor ppl in those 3 years......this will handle the purposes of both the govt and the graduates..........i dont think ppl struggling for their choice of branch will mind going to these areas for their degrees............

but no,our govt just wants us to suffer in every psbl way.......even after struggling so much in life,is it wrong for us to seek a good life in a good city?.......those ministers who sit full time in their ac chambers, come and tell us to live in those villages where even basic amenities of life are not available........

this is our govt where 80000 mbbs graduates sit for pg entrance and not even 5000 ppl are sure of getting what they want..........see the ratio.........even for usmle ratio of gettin a residency is better than here for IMGs..........

i'll say to the govt,give us what we deserve and we'll surely serve our ppl.......treat us as intellectual ppl and dont try to fool us like u do with illiterates.........


sew1269i
Aim USMLE Step 1

Talking about this govt is waste of time, and Azad is a foolish minister and one of Sonia's pet dog.


drashwinc
Aim AIPGE 2013

No offence intended at anyone .

I wud say money is the issue. Not all crazy aftr pg or usmle. The govt shud make primary health set up lucrative. Not all people want to sit in urban areas. Infact primary health is easiest to work. No tension just opd and refer to higher set up any time. But with rising cost of living what can we do without money. Engineers no bond good package early earning and no restriction for knowledge drain. IAS officers minting money with corruption guilty.retire.. cool. ( good people do exist ) Buisinessmen policy makers make money no tax.

Doctors pay tax and serve people.. btw i dont think thr is any service involved in health anymore with present trend. Which pers on above lower middle class wants health from govt institution.

Bonded service is cheap labour for govt. 1yr ok ... But 10 20 yrs. [snip]..... Need we not live...
To credit my mo at phc. He is mbbs active in palliative care goes around in jeep after phc work all for nothing. Just service. I think he needs pay more... But who cares....

Only solution increase pay scale......

By the way its high time we also protested again idea of starting new med colleges in all district. Already here plenty..... Govt shud efficiently utilise doctors... Not just increase doctors for market need.....

Comments welcome.....

And USA wont train doctors who are going to leave after studying. So dont hope of USMLE with bond....


drabhishek777
Aim Andhra Pradesh PG

wht nonsense is dis?
students are struggling for usmle... govt is takign stupid decision. dis people dont hav work i think so..


mleresidencytips


I am aware of the recent statements made by the health minister. I am not sure this has become a law or a rule yet. It may just be a proposition, in which case, it has to go through the motions till it becomes a law that will be enacted. There are many steps which may not even let it pass through, the best would be to continue to focus on your self, work hard and not be distracted by such political motivations. Eventually, things will unravel and a clearer picture will emerge.


bhambha
Aim USMLE Step 1

i'll never send my child to medical college in india. only usa or uk for sure. . . .just not worth being in this country. . . .middle class is crushed in every way. . . . we pay taxes neither the rich nor the poor. . . our fathers toil to pay for pvt college tuition fees and we sell property to go out for want of better opportunities. . .. . .why should i serve the poor when we are pressurized in every way? . .. . . . i do not want to be a crook. . .i do not want to evade tax and i want a good life. . .u think its possible to do this in india?
So many scams, NRHM, Pesticide Scam, Defence Scams, Illegal govt transactions, why do we have to suffer at the cost of illiterate politicians?
Govt does not want to increase med colleges or even no. of seats in existing colleges so that pvt med colleges may thrive. . . how can anyone expect me to or rather force me to serve this country?
Patriotism is for Rogues as said by some smart fellow.


BYK3R


Frankly speaking i kinda like this decision.look,we live in a poor country,why should government pay for ppl who dont want to work here??u wanna go to the usa,uk,pakistan,bangladesh,banana republic,its your wish,but please study in a private college,pay your fee,and then go,and if u did study in a government college make sure u pay all the pennies spent on u before leaving.


BYK3R


Frankly speaking i kinda like this decision.look,we live in a poor country,why should government pay for ppl who dont want to work here??u wanna go to the usa,uk,pakistan,bangladesh,banana republic,its your wish,but please study in a private college,pay your fee,and then go,and if u did study in a government college make sure u pay all the pennies spent on u before leaving.


bhambha
Aim USMLE Step 1

We'll give back more than we have taken if allowed to go out. . . . NRIs get a lot more revenue than natives.


sreedhar165
Aim USMLE Step 1

Friend i just have one thing to say with regard to this.. Its good and our basic duty to serve our country which has helped us, but its a moral obligation.

the govt is not doing any favor on us by opening govt colleges.. We all r paying huge amounts of taxes for only this thing. Health, Education and Security are only the basic things which every govt is supposed to give its citizens, otherwise no need of it at all...

If the govt is not ready to provide govt colleges then there wont b any reason for us to pay the govt at all in the first reason. Are all the people who are studying in govt schools asked to pay back???? what about govt degree?? or inter?? eng?? Pharma?? or any other branch...

we r equal to any other student, so why this partiality..
Ask students who study in govt schools to for 2 years after they finish their schooling, then even ask us..

Or let govt supporting all the education systems completely, so that it can stop nagging telling that its doing a damn favor on us, and then let it see whats the reaction of whole public is...


deepika86
Aim Obstetrics

a person has the right to decide where he/she wants to work/stay/study.
IMO

forcing a doctor to come back to India is the wrong approach.instead, the should give incentives,pay more salary,provide more funds for better equipment,more beds in hospitals,more seats for post graduation of atleast 1:1 ratio of grad and post grad seat, check corruption, etc etc - tightening the leash on a doctor instead of improving conditions for doctors and hospitals is a pathetic step.

as for rural medical 3 yr education, they should give more incentives ,open more hospitals instead of creating an inferior set of para-doctors


minesh_jsn


USMLE
it sounds ridiculous that mr azad tries to capture aazadi of doctors. not only doctors but engineers, nurses and technicians are going abroad, main thing money also flows towards abrod, so why u dont bind each and every thing to remain in india. no surgery of any politician should be held in abrod, it must be done in india, mrs. sonia gandhi has recently gone to usa for surgery, why she has gone there? she is head of congress, why she sets up such example when mr. aazad talks like this.
he says about rural doctors, why u dont create mbbs doctors in that number, why u want to create other cadre, where mbbs doctors learns basic medicine in 6 years, why mr azad want to learn the other cadre in 3 years, and if it is possible then either course should be removed, mbbs or rural doctor.


docyusuf


This dictat by the govt violates our fundamental right to freedom of self determination....this order must be challenged in court.


docyusuf


Is this notification available on any official govt website? I wanted to take a first hand look.


docyusuf


This is extremely unfair. Our country at this point can't provide a physician similar facilities and job satisfaction. India is a democracy. You can't make rules overnight and slap them on the faces of millions. Do you know how difficult it is to get into medical school. Does this Minister have data on how many med school graduates secure post grad residency positions? There is a reason for the brain drain. Have you seen the plight of a medical student who does not get a post grad seat after trying several times( not to mention the caste system). Do you know that most american medical students that apply for residency secure positions and are not abandoned by their own country??? Mr. Minister please look into what you are doing to stop the brain drain because now people that left hate you even more. We are physicians but do have a right to freedom of thought and speech and a certain quality of life that at this point this country can't provide. Whatever happened to Democratic India???


docyusuf


why stop with doctors? What about the millions of engineers who take their heavily subsidized Indian Institute of Technology degrees off to start-ups or graduate schools in the US? And why limit the rules to leaving the country? Why not mandate that all doctors must serve a period of time at rural hospitals? Or that all engineers must work a stint at state-owned companies? It's a slippery slope. And probably an unconstitutional one.


docyusuf


I found the following lines someone posted at a forum in rxpg very helpful so quoting here-

"I am aware of the recent statements made by the health minister. I am not sure this has become a law or a rule yet. It may just be a proposition, in which case, it has to go through the due course till it becomes a law that will be enacted. There are many steps which may not even let it pass through. the best would be to continue to focus on your self, work hard and not be distracted by such political things. Eventually, things will unravel and a clearer picture will emerge"


Dr_Naruto


1—It is a fact that many doctors want to go abroad as soon as they pass MBBS. This is particularly true of AIIMS graduates, the majority of whom prefer to go to USA.
2—It is also a fact that the politicians and the government have been issuing statements that doctors should stay in the country and should serve the poor people in the rural and remote areas.
3—Both the above facts, though contradictory, cannot be faulted. Doctors commit no illegality by going abroad. They have a right to do so, especially when the government is not able to give them jobs in India and is not able to ensure that the opportunities for post-graduate medical studies will be purely merit based.
4—The government has recently proposed that a ban will be enforced on doctors going to USA in such a manner that those going there for higher studies will have to return to India on the completion of the studies. The government would be well advised to enforce the ban in such a manner that no illegality or unconstitutionality is committed. The doctors should be ever ready to challenge such a scheme on legal grounds.
5—The real and lasting solution to the problem lies in the following approach:
a—Medical education, which is highly subsidised at present, should be allowed to follow market forces but with a caution that professional and academic standards are not compromised and the meritorious and the deserving are not denied educational opportunities because of poverty. This would mean that the government medical colleges, including the AIIMS, should charge fees on the same lines as the private medical colleges. The result will be that the so called menace of the so called capitation fee will cease to exist. The government must clearly specify the amount of fees payable by a student.
b--The government should ensure that those who cannot pay high fees should not be denied medical education simply because of inability to pay. The amount incurred on their medical education (referred to as the bond amount) should be recoverable from them through a bond executed before entering the medical college.
c—The mechanism for recovering the bond amount should be flexible and should allow different means of payment such as the following:
i)—Lump sum payment on passing MBBS.
ii)—Monthly payment in instalments in the following manner:
--The government should offer a government job at the regular government pay scales, allowances and designation etc.
-- Service and salary must start from the very next day immediately after passing MBBS. If this is not done, the bond should automatically be treated as lapsed / ineffective.
--Bond amount should be payable in instalments equal to about one fourth of the basic salary plus NPA. The instalment amount should be automatically deductible from the monthly salary.
d—It is to be noted that the bond system is perfectly valid in law and, in various forms, already exists in case of MBBS education imparted at AFMC; CMC Vellore; CMC, Ludhiana; and, Kerala (vide Kerala Government’s “G.O.(MS) No.533/2008/H&FWD dated 07.10.2008”. It is incorrect to equate this system with the concept of bonded labour as defined in the Abolition of Bonded Labour System Act,1976.
e--If a bond is rendered ineffective in respect of a particular candidate, the bond amount should be recovered from the salaries of government officers responsible for such lapse. (If this is not done, the officers concerned would find it convenient to allow the bond to lapse for ulterior motives).
f---The fundamental rights of doctors as guaranteed in Articles 12 to 35 of the Constitution must be ensured before doctors are posted to rural or remote areas. Special focus needs to be given to the following:
i)--ARTICLE 14—They must be ensured equality before law. For example: All doctors must be liable to be posted in rural / remote areas. No exemptions in respect of the “preferred” individuals should be allowed. Principles of natural justice must never be violated. Arbitrariness must be avoided.
ii)--ARTICLE 21—This article ensures right to “Protection of life and personal liberty”. This right would include, as per court judgments, the following:
--- Right to life: In practical terms, this would mean adequate law and order situation; means of communication including roads, telephone and internet; posting in a place where there is a police post nearby and, preferably, a government servant of equivalent or higher rank is staying. It would also include right to safe housing, water supply and sanitation.
--Right to health-- In practical terms, this would mean that adequate facilities must exist for the doctor and his family as regards local treatment and treatment and transport to a referral centre.

iii)--ARTICLE 21A—This article ensures right to education up to age of 14 years. In practical terms, it would mean that educational facilities as mandated by this Article must be available for the dependents / family members of the doctor concerned.
g—PG medical education should be purely merit based and all reservations at PG level must stop.


dranuragbasu
Aim UPSC

I love this country.

Forcibly bring back doctors who go to US for higher studies.Why?
B'coz Govt makes u a doctor at SUBSIDIZED rate.
Shortage of doctors in rural India.

Arre fcukers post MBBS many hafta and serve rural areas dat to at SUBSIDIZED rate.With very little facility.I remember at my PHC it had to suture a torn pinna using thread used for stitching clothes.Just wipped it with spirit & sutured.

Shortage is becoz not enough medical colleges in India.To overcome shortage just make more doctors U morons sitting in d Parliament.Dont blame fraction of d total doctors going to US for dis shortage.

How many US trained doctors will work in rural areas after d GOV forcibly make them to return? ZERO.Many wud join corporate hospitals or go to some other country like in Gulf where there degree will be valued more.

U dont hafta b Einstein to figure out dat health care in rural India is in disarray.Whos responsible?Only doctors.More so d GOV.NRHM brought hope.But politicians ,bureaucrats & handful of doctors ate d whole god damn money & fcuked rural healthcare.

Why dis rule only for doctors?Enforce it for IIT guys , engineers too.Doctors r always easy targets.B'coz its a NOBLE profession.No it is not NOBLE its NO BAL (no strength) I think.

Make all Gov people to take treatment in Gov hospitals compulsory ,dats d only ways to improve health care in Gov service.

I feel for fellow doctors preparing for USMLE.I hope dis gov gets out of power & some sane gov takes over.


mleresidencytips


any concrete steps from govt of India regarding this matter yet?


kanwald4u


are we shifting from democracy to anarchy?
govt has been backstabbing at each step..
for becoming a doctor, first u have to crack pre medical exam.. after a long toil for 5-6 years in degrading medical standards in medical colleges, u earn a degree certificate that offer u a salary of mere 15000 or so, with govt jobs too scarce n too underequipped for professionals...

doctor look forward to PG entrance n again waste 2-3 years to clear it.. to get MD certificate and may again need practical experience for another 3 years

its not the Govt who toil to make a Doctor, but it is the very same person who achieve everything on his own.

Govt claims its right on finished good, The Doctor, whom it never supported. BETTER u do something for stinking medical standards of education and patient care.
Find better means Mr Minister to retain doctors.. cos Brain Drain Is Better Than Brain in DRAIN!


DAM912
Aim DM Critical Care Medicine

Chill guys...This has not become a law as yet, and most probably will not too...
And once this stupid govt. give way to another party (which will happen), nonsense decisions as such will be scrapped...

Keep up the study and the hard work...coz anyhow, that's all which is in our control, as of now atleast.....
Study fast and get out of this country before more such maniacs (as you know who icon_wink.gif) come into power....

All the best, and may God Save Our Souls...


babbanrao
Aim AIPGE 2013

True and well said @DAM912 such news articles come once in a while to distract us frm our main motive ie to get a PG seat whether through AI/USMLE or any god damNd exam...same thing happened with NEET..from 2010 month after month t kept coming that NEET will happen - finally it didn't happen!! God knows if it will ever happen but rite now I couldn't care a damn. And so shouldn't you as well..just concentrate on reading!!!!


harisudhan
Aim Other

I guess ...its none of their buziness of non -doctors to invovle in this issue.
Govt fails in evry aspect of health measures to b implemented in PHC's as well in rural...
Multiple factors play in it to make d health sector weak.
Imposing rules on doctors is never a solution.
If any change has to happen ...then it shud b from d govt improving d medical infrastrucure of our country.
We have our own health budget,enough to have basic medical facilities at RHC's n PHC's but still we lack all these basic facilities reflects indian politicians status of corruption.
A doctor is never in dept to d govt,its d govt n politicians who r corrupt , eating national wealth.


aresalan


this new bond rule will be applied to doctors who graduated from india [mbbs] from govt.institutes like aiims and others or to pravite college also...??what about the graduates who got degrees [mbbs,md] from russia,bangladesh,china,japan,pakistan...if thet want to go usa....from one side they r not recognising pg degree from other countries and other side they r not letting then to go abroad...either recognise there degree as pg ,they will stay in india or let them go abroad to earn...they r not servants of govt policies....


mleresidencytips


any information about this rule regarding if it will be retroactive for past graduates? thanks. This is a very controversial and draconian step even though it is well meaning in its nature.

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