hey nic thanks for your usefull information . i have just pmed you about some queries and i just found out that u have answered most o them here in this forum. your are doing a awesome job . keep it up
Query regarding cheapest airlines/ route to Australia
:
A good way would be to ask a reliable travel agent as there are special offers at time, like the Malaysian airlines which had a free stay in Malaysia for a few days if you flew their airlines, so keep your eyes and ears wide open. Various airlines have promos at different times, you may get better options by asking them.
Is IELTS
a must? Can you please tell me if we are going to work in an AON, do we need to clear IELTS
or just before giving AMC exams?
One cannot work in Australia
or take the AMC exam without IELTS
or any other english proficiency exam unless you have been granted exemption.
English proficiency is one of the criteria to determine your eligibility to take the AMC exam.
Please see this article regarding english proficiency:
PROVISIONS FOR EXEMPTION
A provision exists for applicants in certain circumstances to be granted an exemption from the requirement to pass one of the designated vocational tests of English proficiency. Applications for exemption must be submitted to the AMC using Form E or Form AON-E.
As the English language proficiency standards are now a requirement for registration, the AMC is not able to set aside these requirements without compromising a candidate’s eligibility for registration. However, the Medical Boards have retained discretionary provisions and may be able to accept alternative evidence of English language proficiency. If you consider that yours is a special case, contact one of the State/Territory Medical Boards to see if the circumstances of your case would qualify for an exemption from the agreed national standards.
If the Medical Board is prepared to grant you an exemption from the English proficiency standards, the AMC will process your application, on receipt of written confirmation from the Board.
Other Criteria for Exemption:
An exemption may also be considered when an applicant provides [together with Form E or Form AON-E] certified copies of documentary evidence of secondary education (NOT University training) in a country where English is the native or first language (not merely the official language).
State and Territory Medical Boards have indicated that for the purposes of registration:
Results must have been obtained within 2 years prior to applying for registration
An IELTS
(or approved equivalent) Test Report Form more than two years old will be accepted as evidence of present level of ability if accompanied by proof that a candidate has actively maintained employment as a medical practitioner in a country where English is the native or first language.
Are we permitted by the Australian government to work part time jobs between AMC 1 and 2?
That will depend on your visa. If you're on a tourist visa, definitely no job whatsoever! But for a student visa, you may be able to work up to 20 hours per week. For part time hospital jobs, may be after getting AMC part 1 will be a good starting point and you can try at the rural hospitals as they offer fresh graduates more chances than metros. Try
for some links. Of course this will require a different type of visa.
After clearing both AMC parts, then I think we have to do 1 year supervised training. Am I right?
Supervised training is also a requirement after both exams.
I understand that one can apply for supervised training through the computer matching program if one has a PR. So do you know other ways to apply for supervised training? Do you go through recruitment agents or apply directly to hospitals?
To get a supervised training post, one applies directly to the hospitals or recruiting agencies. No, we cannot apply through computer matching program because I understand only those who will be taking their internships apply through that (those Australian citizens, PR holders, Australian school graduates). Supervised training is different from internship, though they may have the same work scope.
Are supervised training positions paid positions?
Yes, supervised training post is a paid position. It is however not called internship
After that supervised training can we get in post graduation? Means if score is good than can we get good branches? or it goes entirely on luck?
It is said that if one obtains a general registration/ PR, one can join PG training. But I can't be sure as no one I know has done it so far. So we also won't know if we can get the PG of our choice. We just have to wait for someone to confirm this.
After that post graduation ( I think that time is of 3 yrs ), than can we practice in Australia
?
I don't think PG is just for 3 years, that will depend on the PG. But I am sure if one graduates from PG training, one can practice on his/ her own in Australia
.
Is it a routine to have an extra gain from overtime and thus it simply depends on one whether he wish to earn more 'OR' again there is a long Q for opting for the overtime i.e. one has to try really hard and should be lucky enough to get opportinity to work extra and thus to earn extra.
Overtime is universal in Australia
for everyone. So that's true everyone makes more than 30% extra, unless you just decline to do overtime
Can you tell me the chance of passing AMC after joining for a course in Australia
? (ex. MPH)
I don't think the reason for joining the course in Australia
is to increase chances of passing the AMC exam, but for the PR points.
Where and what is IDP? Which exam does one need to clear for getting MPH after MBBS?
IDP - Its an institution worldwide for Australian education. It has branches all over. In India also we have 11 branches. You can find it from the site
For MPH or MHA
in Australia
,you only require IELTS
. Some universities do accept TOEFL
if you have good score. But IELTS
is must for immigration so you have to give it. GRE
is of no help.
Only Academic performance, IELTS
(or TOEFL
) and work experience counts.
Can you please tell how much total expense round about comes if someone goes to study MPH without scholarship in Australia
?
The cost of doing MPH varies with the university.
Just now there were two roadshows by Planet Education and other by IDP in different cities. I even attended it and applied to around 5 universities through that. In this roadshows the application fees is waived off.
The cost of MPH or MHA
, in which I have applied varies in between 10 to 12 lac INR.
I have applied to
1.Deakin
2.Uni of Technology, Sydney
3.La Trobe Uni
4.Uni of Sydney ( costly)
5.Curtin Uni
Their fees varies between 17,000 Aus $ to 21,000 Aus $ per yr. the course is of 1.5 yrs. Then you can extend it.
One option is To take Graduate diploma in community health. That's of 1 yr. I have applied for that in La Trobe. If you give AMC both parts in 1 yr that well and good. SO you don't have to incur more expense on this MPH thing. The cost for Grad Diploma is around 5 -6 lacs INR. Then after AMC you can always become PR easily. But the main problem is to give AMC in 1 yr and to be focussed to do that.
Do we get scholarship for MPH in Australia
???
The scholarships if Australia
is mostly given to research candidates, not for coursework candidates. Our MPH or MHA
comes under coursework. So we hold a very less chance for scholarship.
Regarding the assistanships, we do get it once we reach there. It depends on your academic credentials and previous work experience. Many of us do get it. So don't worry about it. We can do part time jobs there for our living. 20 hr/wk.
Can we read there along with MHA
or MPH? Means even if we do part time jobs (which arr very necessary) then can we give AMC 1 and AMC 2 within 1.5 yrs?
Yes, if you can manage taking MHA
/MPH together with AMC exam, I think one can do both exams in 1.5 years. That will totally depend on you.
Here's a couple of posts from Plabotomy's thread which are very informative. The questions are summarized, but Plabotomy's answers aren't. The questions are those with arrows, and the answers just below each question.
--->Can you tell us more about the hospital system in Australia?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Well you can expect to work about 40 hours a week, to be on a FIRST NAME basis with your consultants.
I have been in Queensland for over a month now and I have found to people to be more friendly than in the UK.
I do get a lot more holidays than in the UK and a lot more weekends off.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->1) Which is more advisable, coming to Australia on basis of MPH or AMC exams? Can we get jobs in hospital after AMC part 1? How much do they pay in such jobs?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Australia is short of junior doctors. Period
They are not looking to train you.
So anyone planning to do a PG here is going to find it difficult (but not impossible), for that you would need to be brilliant and have the right backing. They are looking for experienced people.
They prefer PGs or people with TWO years experience from the UK. (It used to be one years UK exp but bcos they know the UK situation they have upped the ante)
Ozs doors are not gonna be open forever bcos its population is a lot less than that of the UK.
I believe Ozs population is around Indias annual growth rate. So the total number of doctors will be a lot less that the UK or the US.
My suggestion would be if you are interested in Oz then be quick about it.
The MPH route or the AMC1 short stay route: the bottom line here is you have to get your AMC through.
Yes people with AMC1 have secured jobs. The disandvantage of the short stay route is that you will have to leave after the AMC1 and hence it will give you less time to actually search for a job![/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->Do I stand a chance in an aon job with 2 years experience?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Depends on where your experience is from.
All surgical specialties are much sought after, because as a surgeon you can have a private practise and make bucket loads of money.
Having said that there is a surgical reg from Zimbabwe working in my hosp. However all she does is clerk patients in. She has not managed to operate an appendix independantly so far bcos of the Patel backlash.
If your exp is Uk or equivalent or an Indian PG then you have good chances.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->Can a 2-year old PLAB results be used as IELTS exemption?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]My PLAB2 certificate says my results are valid for THREE years!!! And I am using that as an examption to the IELTS.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->What is the whole cost for getting into an AONP and is there any other alternative other than the ANOP to get into australia for a fresh graduate?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Add your cost for your medicals, your ticket, registration, EICS clearance, postage and you have got your total costs.
The Australian Govt has recruited agencies and pays them to recruit docs.
Any charges above what I have mentioned and you are being ripped off.
If you are a fresh grad you could get a job after passing the AMC1.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->Can you give some info regarding working condition in Queensland as compared to UK if possible in Psychiatry and Surgery?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Similar working conditions in the UK and here.
You are pretty much doing the same here and in the UK in psych and surg
The cutting experience (or the lack of it) are the same.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->How is the situation regarding racial differences in aus?
Racism exists. You can expect it. For those who have worked in the UK it isn't any more or less.
It is more subtle and not in your face. They will be polite but you can notice it. Those horror stories you hear are not true.
--->What is the scope in hospital orthopaedics/trauma posts in Australia?
If you have a PG degree in Ortho then it shouldn't be difficult.
Most of the uncomplicated slabs/ POPs are done in the ED by the ED docs.
You would be left with history taking and retracting in theatre.
YOu should expect cutting until you win their confidence.
Without a PG or UK experience, I would say slim.
I am however not the last word.
I sincerely request you to try applying for jobs yourself or try the AMC1.
It seems like not too long ago I was predicting the doomsday scenario for england
I was immediately labelled as trying to decrease my competition and armchair experts who were not in the UK kept saying jobs in Psychiatry were easy in fact i told one of the moderators (who had passed plab1) not to bother with plab2
the reply was that he wanted to try his luck. Today, he is contemplating on participating in the protest march.
What does the future hold for doctors from the subcontinent in Oz?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Here are a few facts:
Australia is short of junior doctors
The shortage is in towns and the outback (villages)
The shortage is only in certain specialties (non surgical)
The training posts are fully occupied
There is no shortage in cities (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane)
So they created the Area of Need Posts where experienced doctors from overseas could take up posts.
The only way these doctors could get a PR status was passing the AMC exam
Suddenly it became EASY to pass the exam
They accepted anyone with two years experience from the subcontinent or one years experience from UK and similar countries[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
Then Dr Death happened.
Now they accept only postgraduates from the subcontinent
Then the rules changed in the UK.
NOW THEY ARE ASKING FOR TWO YEARS UK EXPERIENCE.
So the shortage of junior doctors exists, the protest march will happen and despite it. Scores of UK IMGs will lose their jobs and they will come to Australia and gradually the no of jobs will decrease.
Where does that leave doctors from the subcontinent who wish to do their PG in Oz?
Lets say a doctor fresh from his internship decided today that he wanted to do his PG in Oz.
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Heres the time frame (all approximate) :
1.IELTS EXAM 3-6 months
2.AMC 1 (including EICS clearance) atleast 3 months
3. wait for AMC 2 (3-6 months after passing part 1)
3. AMC 2 till results arrive 3 months
So now 12-18 months later he has passed his AMC2
He is now eligible for a JHO post (one year)
then an SHO post (one year)
so three years have passed and he can now become a registrar (ie begin his PG)
If he doesnt succeed he will become a PHO (non training registrar post)
If there is a choice between an Ozzie and an IMG for one training post who do you think will get the post (and it is only fair)[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
In three years if Australia wont have a shortage of doctors anymore
they WILL change the rules.
After talking with senior doctors I have concluded that as of today:
It is easy to enter the Australian training program but UNLESS YOU ARE EXCEPTIONALLY BRILLIANT and lucky it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO PASS THOSE EXAMS (esp the last part).
People will get disillusioned and will move towards the GP program and that will entail a 10 year sabbatical in the outback.
THIS POST IS NOT MEANT TO DISILLUSION ANYONE BUT SIMPLY TO PRESENT FACTS.
The doors in Australia are closing and they are closing fast
Those who go through the MPH route will have to go thru the JHO and SHO before they can apply for training.
Please consider all these facts before coming here
Let there not be another protest march.
--->Does that approximate time frame apply to docs who are 3 or 4 years post MBBS? If someone in that status passes AMC 2 does he/she needs to go through the JHO and SHO post or directy apply for the training post?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]It all depends on what and where ur Post MBBS experience is. The key is how similar the experience is to the Oz experience.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
eg Psychiatry
in Oz is similar to Psychiatry
in the UK but the same can't be said about that of the Indian subcontinent.
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]1. One year UK SHOexp= JHO year in Oz
2nd year SHO in UK = SHO year in Oz
hence a person with two years UK experience gets an easy entry into Oz
2. Indian subcontinent PG= 2 years Oz experience
any other experience in the subcontinent (ie non PG) will be difficult to standardise and hence compare[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
In the wake of Dr Death they dont want to take any chances and hence their stringent requirement.
So if your experience is non PG, it will vary from case to case where you start, but in all likelihood you may be asked to start as a JHO and if you are good you may find yourself promoted to an SHO in 6 months and then a PHO if they think you are capable.
I know of a person who has recently come from the UK with one years experience and he got a job as a JHO, this becos they know of the situation in the UK and are being tough.
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]If an outsider with AMC2 comes in and applies for a training post will the relevant college accept him or a person who has worked in the system for two years? The answer is obvious and only fair. Same with hospitals will they rather take in an unknown or train them or will they train a person who has worked with them for two years. The answer is obvious.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
Whats the problem with the MPH route?Can't we get good jobs after doing that course?
Depends on what jobs you are talking about. If ur talking about the field of public health, I dont know. Common sense tells me they would prefer australians over non australians. I have no first hand information on job prospects after MPH
What I would suggest is you check in any Oz immigration site and see if Public Health is on the on demand list.
eg Oz is short of accountants, so if you are an MCom getting a PR and a job is no problem.
If it is not then the job prospects would not be great (but not impossible).
You could check with the college you are applying as to what the job prospects in Oz are.
You have to remember that as Overseas student fees are a lot more than domestic student fees and hence they look at the money they make rather than looking as you as a potential employee.
[tex:ded3316c5c]If you are talking about clinical jobs in hospitals then it depends on how desperately short the hospital is of doctors.
The current situation in the UK is that there may be hundreds of doctors with two years or more of UK experience who may find themselves jobless from august. Now if you are a hospital director who is looking for a junior doctor in medicine who would you prefer? An MPH graduate or a doctor who trained in the UK in medicine for two years?
I would think that the current shortage may be filled in august itself. The very fact that the Ozzies are now getting choosy and demanding two years UK experience, instead of the one years UK experience they were requesting a month ago should make matters more obvious.
I doubt the prospects look very encouraging after completing the MPH course if you want to switch over to the clinical field.[/tex:ded3316c5c]
Oz is a huge country alright, infact the sixth biggest landwise, but population wise it ranks 54th. The Uk has thrice as many people as in Australia
and that is why they could sustain overseas doctors for so long. Heck even countries like Malaysia/ Iraq/Yemen/ Italy Romania have a higher popluation than Australia
. Afghanistan has 10 million more people than Oz. Oz may be more than twice the size of India but it has only 40000 more people than in Sri Lanka which is ranked 55th. So much for sizable population. You may assume that an MBBS with an MPH may be the best man for the job but the Ozzies may be up in arms if the government starts dishing out jobs to foreigners.
It is a supply vs demand situation, today Ozs doors may be open for clinical doctors but the with the developments in the UK these doors wont be open for long.
1. After AMC 1 you can get a job if
[tex:ded3316c5c]
a. your score is among the top ranks and if the hospital has a suitable post, with people having a years UK experience taking up JHO posts the chances are diminishing
b. If you pay money and take up an observership and a job preparatory courses you stand a good chance; These are quite expensive and could work upto thousands of dollars[/tex:ded3316c5c]
2. In India or the UK you could join a PG the day after you finish your internship.
In Oz you have to pay your dues for one to two years before you could think of becoming a PG. The number of training posts are very less than non training posts eg in The emergency department where I work there is one Registrar post and seven PHO (non training) posts. It is a myth that there is a shortage of registrar (training) posts and a fact that there is a shortage of PHO posts. So if you think that it is going to be easy for IMGs to enter training programs think again!!! Again if you have only done internship then after AMC2 you have two undergo a period of supervised training which usually is around one year before you will be granted a full regn and then a PR. That will count as a JHO year, then comes and SHO year and then you will be eligible to enter a training program. Two years hence when Oz is no longer short of doctors do you think it will be any easier for IMGs to get training posts???
3. If there are two training posts and three candidates for the job, the first an Ozzie, the second and IMG who has done his JHO and SHO year and is now a PR and the third an MPH graduate who would you give the job to say if it were a training program in Orthopaedics.
4. I think simply by doing an MPH will not help in any way to get a training job. ON what basis do they give you a training job in medicine/ surgery. etc? because you are a master in Public Health. You will have to check on the job prospects in Public Health yourself. But doing the MPH you can certainly be in Oz and apply for jobs after passing the AMC and that will give you an edge over someone you are competing with who is not in Oz
I am not trying to discourage anyone from entering Oz, but I feel you need know the current situation and make an informed choice, and always have backup plans. It saddens me to see people still taking the PLAB
exam when the doors are firmly shut. I personally feel that the doors in Oz are closing soon and for some it may not be practical to take the AMC exam given the UK situation with IMGs. Population wise US has 300 million, Uk has 60 million and Australia
has only 20 million. So the population is Oz is not favourable to sustain IMGs for long.
What is the EICS? How long did it take you to sort out the whole process with the EICS?Did you get your temporary registration after the whole EICS was completed?
[tex:aa159c4f67]EICS is a verification system based in the US:
to check your credentials ie to see if you are really who you claim to be or another Dr Death in the making.
It started as a knee jerk reaction to Dr death.
You need the EICS verification for working in certain states and
also if you want to do the AMC exam. So in many ways it is something that you have to do.[/tex:aa159c4f67]
You need EICS clearance to attempt the AMC.
You need to clear the AMC beforeyou become a PR
Only PRs/ citizens can apply for GP training program
You can only become a GP by going thru the training program and passing the exam.
Unless you have passed the exams in the UK in which case you could start working as a GP.
For me the EICS clearance took about three months
Subsequently I got my temporary registration in three weeks
my visa took a further month to come through
[tex:aa159c4f67]EICS clearance depends on
a. the no of applications they receive
b. the speed of despatch
c. by far the most important factor being how fast your college clears you[/tex:aa159c4f67]
I know of one person who hadn't received a clearance after four months
after repeated emails to the EICS he found out that the college hadnt cleared him
He rushed to his college and he had to grease a babus palm for a signature and got his clearance (the babu thinking this paper has come from yumerica where is my cut).
The EICS people will only send it once by guaranteed delivery. Once they know it has arrived they wont pester the college, knowing that if there is something wrong the college wont be in a hurry to reply
for the temporary registration they have sittings at particular times and it how quickly yours gets done all depends on when they receive it and how many folders are above yours.
Again some hospitals in queensland if they are short of manpower they request the board to give you provisional registration subject to EICS clearance. This has happened.
Has anyone been rejected registration?
As far as I know if you have a job offer and have not been naughty in med school you should have no problem with your registration.
Other answers:
[tex:aa159c4f67]After your AMC and your PR, theoretically you can take up a PG.
Again in your case a PG will involve five years from the day u begin ur JHO year.
See PGs from India have begun working as PHOs and have joined the training program.
But they got in bcos they have a PG qualification and they got easily accepted into the PHO post, their bosses liked their work and have backed them to enter the PG program. For you if youve had no PG exp/ UK exp it is most likely that u wud have to start from scratch.[/tex:aa159c4f67]
GP in India is no way similar to GP in Oz so I doubt that your stint as a GP will be recognised in lieu of the GP training here. Remember that once you pass ur exams you may be posted for a few years in the harsh outback, worse than indian villages. The image we have of Oz is of the major cities and that it is a glamorous place. The outback in reality is very sparse and desolate
I know ur eligible f
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Topic Tags: 
What is the EICS? How long did it take you to sort out the whole process with the EICS?Did you get your temporary registration after the whole EICS was completed?