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Tuesday 27th of December 2005 09:11:43 AM (4 years ago)
#1
Hi all, this is basically from the thread started by Bertuff, summarized with some points added.
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
How does one apply for the AMC exam? What are the requirements?
To apply for the AMC exam, you have to go through the Australian Medical Council site. You have to fill the preliminary application form and submit together with the fees to the AMC. You will receive a GP pack after around 2 weeks, containing pamphlets, information booklets and application form for the MCQ exam. All requirements will be enumerated in the handbook contained in the GP pack.
Generally to apply for the exam, one is required to have:
MBBS/MD
Minimum of Band 7 in all aspects in IELTS
Internship is not required, but advised.
The dates and fees for the exam are located at the AMC site.
Comments regarding AMC exam:
According to a post at the thread, AMC is probably more difficult than PLAB but almost similar to MLE. Except the clinical exam is a bit tough.
What are the recommended books for the AMC exam? How are the exams conducted?
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Comments regarding the recommended books by AMC: by Bertuff
Those books are just useless in my eyes. Only thing that we need is the pattern of questions. Theory material is same all over the world. Its the way of making MCQs that differs. So try for MCQs not for text books only. What ever books you have read in MBBS is sufficient.
Comments regarding the previous papers: by Bertuff
You will not be able to get the previous papers due to legal foundations and you will have to find someone in person. It is available, its just the hard work. If Australians find the paper they can charge you something like But I didn’t need them to clear AMC, so don’t be disheartened if you couldn’t get it.
Do i really need to take bridging course in Australia to clear examinations conducted by AMC? If so, let me know the institutes providing the bridging course.
No, one doesn't have to take a bridging course to pass the exams.
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- bridging course article by RxPG
Can I prepare by self study for clearing the exams?
Definitely! You just have to manage your time and study well.
Do any institutes overseas help candidates for the preparation of this examination?
For the AMC, I don't think there are institute overseas to help you prepare, unless you choose Kaplan (which is for USMLE preparation).
Are AMC exams conducted only in Australia?
Yes, there's no other place.
And would the 1 year period of Internship overseas be considered as 1 year of experience?
No.
After clearing the AMC exams, will one be eligible to work?
One can only get area of need job BEFORE MCQs, u can only get hospital & area of need job AFTER MCQs. After clearing both steps, sky is the limit. Once you pass AMC your chances and path is the same as local grads. Here, you start to think about PG in the 3rd year out, and as other have said before it is not a masters course, but an on the job training and course work - expect 3 odd year for basic specialisation and another 3+ for advanced training (super specialisation).
Advise from the posts in the forum:
So I think that you first work hard and clear AMC and think about PG and all later. It's going to be a long way. There is not a very good salary but for the time being that is enough. I never think of doing any thing except Medicine and can't advice you any thing other than medical job. We are doctors and we are meant for Medicine only not for other 'sort' of job.
There is NO shortage of specialists - the numbers here are extremely tightly controlled by the respective colleges - this is so they have control over supply and demand. They do not recognise overseas postgraduate qualifications, simply because they don't have to. If you are looking to move to Australia permanently, Iwould tough out the AMC - better long term scope. If you want to make a wad of cash and move back to your own country, "areas of need " will be very fulfilling.
What are the expenses incurred when one stays in Australia?
Expenses depend on person to person and where you will stay and lot of other things. Costs will vary - Sydney, Melbourne will be very expensive - regional areas like Newcastle, etc will be cheaper, ie. rent. Brisbane is pretty expensive now, Darwin, Adelaide, Perth will be cheaper. Costs below are fairly rough, and based on Brisbane - but around $200/week or more. Rent - $150-250 per week in a nice unit close to major, food - ~$50/week, miscellaneous - $30-60/week (e.g. public transport, textbooks, meals out, etc). Buying a car is expensive - ongoing petrol, servicing, registration, insurance, plus around $2-5K for the cheapest cars.
Cost are based from the experience of those who have posted around the forum.
Is USMLE, PLAB, MCCQE and other exams recognized in Australia?
No, Australia doesn't recognize these other exams. They have their own, AMC exams.
After clearing MRCP, what opportunities do I have? As answered by Bertuff.
Now you have a lot of opportunities as the MRCPis well recognized in Australia. But still you will have to clear the AMC exam. I feel you have a wonderful chance to get a excellent job with good salary in Australia and if you have no other problem, it is worth trying it.
Is getting a job better in Australia than in US/UK?
Australia is better than UK and also a bit to US for doctors. It's not a waste of time and money, but every good thing requires some investment.
Comments regarding Australia, by Bertuff
Coming to Australia vs.UK, money is far better in UK, however, working conditions, quality of life, education for kids (ie for cities and regional areas, not so much rural) is fantastic. So many UK docs are trying to get to Australia for these very reasons. I don't know anyone in Australia who has regretted their decision.
How does one apply for a job? Is it online?
One can apply for jobs through recruitment agencies, or directly through hospitals. If you get a job placement, the hospital will be the one to guide you through registration in the State Boards.
One can apply online, or by mail. Each State has information regarding this.
What are the guidelines of the interview with the Medical Board after you have been offered a position in Australia? Do they give simple clinical scenarios or what exactly is the format? Do they assess my knowledge and clinical competency, or just cross-check my documentation? According to Bertuff.
For any registration in Australia, even for the area of need, you will have to face the interview. In the interview they don’t check your knowledge, but your behaviour, and they see whether you look like doctor or not, eg tattoo, dressing style, hair style etc. They also want to know whether you know that even in area of need, you have to clear AMC as soon as possible.
Can one get into a surgery position in Australia?
For general surgery, ENT, and orthopedics , or for any surgical branch, entering is very difficult and very lengthy. Australians don't recognise degrees other than MBBS so you all will have to do the specialization again and it takes 8 to 10 years if everything goes all right. However- there is one way for specialist to practice, you can be "specialist" in the area of need.
Re: Treatment of doctors in Australia by Bertuff
Average Australian doctor will not be very happy to take us. You can understand this, there is nothing wrong in it. I remember in India, I didn’t like doctors from overseas and donation colleges, although it can feel bad but that the truth. Similarly here they don’t like and this is well understood. There are a lot of doctors in India who get the degree without knowing the position of spleen (I know one personally), and because of that everyone suffers. So the Australians say that you are not a qualified doctors, if you are- PROVE IT. But remember, after clearing the AMC exams, there is no distinction and doctors and the patients likes you. You have proved that you are efficient. There is no race difference here. Because some fraud cases overseas, all the applications of doctors are now processed only in Australia. You must remember that whites are very strict in doctors and once granted registration, they trust you a lot. They have their own rules and they are good that’s why you want to come here. So I say not to criticize them but prove your efficiency. They need you, its just the selection and time. Even when they need the doctors, they will not break the rules. So don’t get disheartened, you will enjoy more later if you will got it with difficulty, if it would have been so easy, there would have been no fun, like going US or UK is no fun now. And remember, Australians are learning from the mistakes of US and UK. So they will not keep the doors open for you for long.
Can a visitor's visa be changed in Australia?
Visitor's visa can be changed to different one while you are on visit. For more information, please visit the Australia Visa forum or more importantly, the Immigration site of Australia.
Advise from Bertuff:
Let me clear something. Someone came here on tourist visa, gave AMC part one, cleared, now can’t apply job on tourist visa, so he changed it into temporary resident visa, then got the job. It’s a theoretical possibility.
Second person came on area of need position on temporary resident visa, got both steps of AMC cleared, applied for full condition, did internship, got full registration, got permanent residence. Cool life and safer.
Choice is yours!
Re: Migrating to Australia from Canada
I don’t think that job wise Australia is any better than Canada, as I must tell you that the AMC is very influenced by the Canadian Medical Council. A lot of rules and the medical literature has been taken from Canada! The exam I supposed, is quite similar to that of Canada but I can’t confirm it. if you see the publications of AMC, most of them have been taken from Canadian Medical Council., so I will say that if you are settled in Canada and practising Medicine, it would be a bad idea to come here unless you don’t like that country. If you have cleared CMC and not able to do a job, AMC exam would be easier for you. However if you can’t clear exam there, there are very little chances that you will do here as the pattern is very similar.
Final word from Bertuff: I think that none wants to read the previous discussions and a lot of posts are just repetitions! Please be serious and if I am working for nothing, I only expect reasonable questions. Please quote the previous mails if still any doubt.
Seats are limited candidates are in millions. The one with the brain or luck will get the position, otherwise "somebody" will just blame others.
Just remember, if you will get something with hard work, you will understand the value of that and there is no fun in spoonfeeding. And he ended up with these words: I guess I don't have anything to tell to this forum, and from my side this forum has been closed. Thanks for your patience and all the best....
Therefore, please do read the threads in the forum first and foremost before asking your questions, as I'm sure most of it are already in the forum.
The following is a very common question seen in the Australia forum:
Hi, I am [person's name]. I've graduated from [University, Place] and I've [X] years of experience in [specialty, PG]. I am interested in Australia.
Followed by the following questions:
What are my chances/prospects of getting a job in Australia? OR Can I apply in AON? OR Can anyone guide me how to go about it?
If you've read the previous posts in this thread, I would assume your queries have been answered.
However, to recap...
Generally, For a fresh graduate, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE AMC ROUTE (ie, take the AMC exam). After passing both exams, then that's the time you can apply for work/ registration.
For those with less than 2 years of experience, you may try to apply for work (but they usually requires a minimum of 2 years of postinternship experience), or you may opt to follow the exam route.
For those with 2 years or more of experience, or for those with a year of experience in UK (may be also in US or Canada), can apply for an AON position.
Or one may opt to apply for a course in Australia for a year or two, and take the AMC exam while doing the course.
Reagrding working in Australia as a specialist, I think the State boards would be able to answer your queries.
To guide you through application for the AMC exam, go to
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I would say that most of your queries will be answered when you visit that site. There are also several threads here in this forum which may give you an overview of Australia, some of which has already been summarized for your convenience, in this thread.
Overview of the AMC exam with the URLs for the compilation of MCQs:
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Some of the answers to your Visa queries may be found here:
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Link to other threads related to Australia:
AMC:
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AON:
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Another common questions: Is [other exams, eg. PLAB/USMLE/MCCQE] be of any help in taking the AMC exam?
Will my [other exam] be recognized in Australia?
I would think having taken other exams would benefit one, as Nonie has already replied that:
Quote:
If you have passed PLAB , then you have the basic knowledge of the type of questions asked. The difference is the topic a particular exam stresses more upon. That can very well be found out by reading recalls and recommended books. I think if you have passed Plab then you must have refreshed your MBBS knowledge which would help you in AMC as well. Also clinicals would be easier and you would feel more confident.
Other exams WILL NOT BE RECOGNIZED in Australia, as they have their own AMC exams.
Prospects in Australia is still good, as Rajsarin have said... it's now or never.
Remember also that they may or may not recognize your experience, but like what others have said, you have to persevere to get a position. As always, there will be exceptions as well.
Wednesday 28th of December 2005 09:52:17 AM (4 years ago)
#4
"APPRECIATE NIC FOR HIS GREAT CONTRIBUTION"
Are we sure whether NIC is Him or Her?
Just a querry....
Nonethe less we must appreciate. I have been a great fan of NIC for the contributions and effort he/she has put in.
Wednesday 28th of December 2005 11:36:58 AM (4 years ago)
#8
Hey NIC,
You are doing splendid job.......and all of your efforts to make things clear and simple are incredible.
I would like to have your point of view on an issue that I have also asked from Plabotomy, Nonnie and Pragathi.
In todays scenario and for the coming yr 2006.............what are the chances for getting a job ( under AON 'OR' Unaccreditated post ) for a person having cleared M.D.(Med.) from India + AMC- 1.........looking at the massive inflow of the docs to Oz.
Does clearing of AMC-2 assures for the job and training position in OZ.
Thursday 29th of December 2005 01:30:27 AM (4 years ago)
#9
Hi Rahul,
I think for a person who had an MD with experience and has cleared AMC1, has a good chance of securing a post either in AON and unaccreditated post.
I would think that clearing AMC2 would assure you a job in a hospital, and a training position in the future. Australia just opened their doors for IMG/OTD some time ago, so I think the chance of getting work as a doctor is still good.
Friday 30th of December 2005 12:43:49 AM (4 years ago)
#10
Summary of the thread started by Dolive: Career Options in Australia for M.B.B.S graduates
Is getting an MPH a good option?
I certainly think that it is a good option, if you can afford it! It doesn't really cost much though, with the banks offering student loans left, right & centre! Plus, you get to work too. The other thing that you should remember is that once you go & spend 2yrs on a Australian Student Visa, getting a US Visa later on might be a tad easier; should you want to shift base to U.S.
Where can I get information regarding MPH?
Go to IDP Australia office. They have brochures of all the Australian universities & you could go through them. They will be most ready to guide you too! They don't charge you for anything, so nothing to lose! The other option would be Planet education, they have brochures too & will guide you. So take your pick.
What is the cost of the courses for MPH? What are the other expenses?
Most of the courses cost around 12k AU per year & there's a ~12k per annum of additional living expenses (according to the University Student Expenses Guidances, issued every year). Working for 20hours/week, in a job area like that of Medical Transcriptioners can pay around half of the 24k that you get to spend.
Can one apply for a PR when doing MPH?
One can apply for a PR only if you do the courses from certain regional universities, the list of which is available at the DIMIA site. As for checking the status of whether the particular campus is a regional one or not, I suggest you talk to the university representative or the education agency through which you applied. They are more in the loop & would have definite information on PR issues. One has to study for two continuous years in same university to be eligible for PR. The only advantage in studying in a rural area is you get 5 extra points. Its not easy to get PR, because you need to be talented and your skills will be assessed. (for PR, you will need 120points). The benefits of having a PR & then applying for a HMO Job are substantial. And depending upon your AMC Grades, you do have the chance of landing up a job in one of the bigger central hospitals rather than being thrown in the "Bush".
Is one allowed to take the AMC exam while doing MPH?
One is allowed to take the AMC exam while doing MPH.
What are the courses that can increase my chances of working in a hospital in the future?
There are some really good courses that can help your CV when you apply for a Medical Doctor's job in a hospital. Notably, Tropical Medicine, Infectious Diseases or EBM E-learning courses. This is certainly a good route, even better for those who have friends/family that they can put up with when in Oz. But this does take up some time (which you can use to pass both the AMC parts).
Re: MPH and Citizenship
One can get maximum points for Australian immigration when you do MPH and take research epidemiology, Biostatistics and other research subjects which can give you recognition as a "medical scientist". I did it from University of Wollongong in 2003. Fee for one semester then was 7000 AUdollars. Living expenses in Sydney is around 700 dollar a month. You can live in Sydney and drive to Wollongong (70 km). They increased pass points for migration last year. Its better you get 7.0 or more in all modules of academic IELTS.
Friday 30th of December 2005 05:49:27 AM (4 years ago)
#12
hey nic thanks for your usefull information . i have just pmed you about some queries and i just found out that u have answered most o them here in this forum. your are doing a awesome job . keep it up
Monday 20th of March 2006 01:31:58 AM (4 years ago)
#17
Hi everyone! Here's another batch of summaries from various threads!
Just a reminder, this thread will be locked to posts. You can however posts your queries at the thread:
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Alright then, let's keep the ball rolling!
Query regarding cheapest airlines/ route to Australia:
A good way would be to ask a reliable travel agent as there are special offers at time, like the Malaysian airlines which had a free stay in Malaysia for a few days if you flew their airlines, so keep your eyes and ears wide open. Various airlines have promos at different times, you may get better options by asking them.
Is IELTS a must? Can you please tell me if we are going to work in an AON, do we need to clear IELTS or just before giving AMC exams?
One cannot work in Australia or take the AMC exam without IELTS or any other english proficiency exam unless you have been granted exemption.
English proficiency is one of the criteria to determine your eligibility to take the AMC exam.
Please see this article regarding english proficiency:
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PROVISIONS FOR EXEMPTION
A provision exists for applicants in certain circumstances to be granted an exemption from the requirement to pass one of the designated vocational tests of English proficiency. Applications for exemption must be submitted to the AMC using Form E or Form AON-E.
As the English language proficiency standards are now a requirement for registration, the AMC is not able to set aside these requirements without compromising a candidate’s eligibility for registration. However, the Medical Boards have retained discretionary provisions and may be able to accept alternative evidence of English language proficiency. If you consider that yours is a special case, contact one of the State/Territory Medical Boards to see if the circumstances of your case would qualify for an exemption from the agreed national standards.
If the Medical Board is prepared to grant you an exemption from the English proficiency standards, the AMC will process your application, on receipt of written confirmation from the Board.
Other Criteria for Exemption:
An exemption may also be considered when an applicant provides [together with Form E or Form AON-E] certified copies of documentary evidence of secondary education (NOT University training) in a country where English is the native or first language (not merely the official language).
State and Territory Medical Boards have indicated that for the purposes of registration:
Results must have been obtained within 2 years prior to applying for registration
An IELTS (or approved equivalent) Test Report Form more than two years old will be accepted as evidence of present level of ability if accompanied by proof that a candidate has actively maintained employment as a medical practitioner in a country where English is the native or first language.
Are we permitted by the Australian government to work part time jobs between AMC 1 and 2?
That will depend on your visa. If you're on a tourist visa, definitely no job whatsoever! But for a student visa, you may be able to work up to 20 hours per week. For part time hospital jobs, may be after getting AMC part 1 will be a good starting point and you can try at the rural hospitals as they offer fresh graduates more chances than metros. Try
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and
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for some links. Of course this will require a different type of visa.
After clearing both AMC parts, then I think we have to do 1 year supervised training. Am I right?
Supervised training is also a requirement after both exams.
I understand that one can apply for supervised training through the computer matching program if one has a PR. So do you know other ways to apply for supervised training? Do you go through recruitment agents or apply directly to hospitals?
To get a supervised training post, one applies directly to the hospitals or recruiting agencies. No, we cannot apply through computer matching program because I understand only those who will be taking their internships apply through that (those Australian citizens, PR holders, Australian school graduates). Supervised training is different from internship, though they may have the same work scope.
Are supervised training positions paid positions?
Yes, supervised training post is a paid position. It is however not called internship
After that supervised training can we get in post graduation? Means if score is good than can we get good branches? or it goes entirely on luck?
It is said that if one obtains a general registration/ PR, one can join PG training. But I can't be sure as no one I know has done it so far. So we also won't know if we can get the PG of our choice. We just have to wait for someone to confirm this.
After that post graduation ( I think that time is of 3 yrs ), than can we practice in Australia?
I don't think PG is just for 3 years, that will depend on the PG. But I am sure if one graduates from PG training, one can practice on his/ her own in Australia.
Is it a routine to have an extra gain from overtime and thus it simply depends on one whether he wish to earn more 'OR' again there is a long Q for opting for the overtime i.e. one has to try really hard and should be lucky enough to get opportinity to work extra and thus to earn extra.
Overtime is universal in Australia for everyone. So that's true everyone makes more than 30% extra, unless you just decline to do overtime
Can you tell me the chance of passing AMC after joining for a course in Australia? (ex. MPH)
I don't think the reason for joining the course in Australia is to increase chances of passing the AMC exam, but for the PR points.
Where and what is IDP? Which exam does one need to clear for getting MPH after MBBS?
IDP - Its an institution worldwide for Australian education. It has branches all over. In India also we have 11 branches. You can find it from the site
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For MPH or MHA in Australia ,you only require IELTS . Some universities do accept TOEFL if you have good score. But IELTS is must for immigration so you have to give it. GRE is of no help.
Only Academic performance, IELTS (or TOEFL ) and work experience counts.
Can you please tell how much total expense round about comes if someone goes to study MPH without scholarship in Australia?
The cost of doing MPH varies with the university.
Just now there were two roadshows by Planet Education and other by IDP in different cities. I even attended it and applied to around 5 universities through that. In this roadshows the application fees is waived off.
The cost of MPH or MHA , in which I have applied varies in between 10 to 12 lac INR.
I have applied to
1.Deakin
2.Uni of Technology, Sydney
3.La Trobe Uni
4.Uni of Sydney ( costly)
5.Curtin Uni
Their fees varies between 17,000 Aus $ to 21,000 Aus $ per yr. the course is of 1.5 yrs. Then you can extend it.
One option is To take Graduate diploma in community health. That's of 1 yr. I have applied for that in La Trobe. If you give AMC both parts in 1 yr that well and good. SO you don't have to incur more expense on this MPH thing. The cost for Grad Diploma is around 5 -6 lacs INR. Then after AMC you can always become PR easily. But the main problem is to give AMC in 1 yr and to be focussed to do that.
Do we get scholarship for MPH in Australia ???
The scholarships if Australia is mostly given to research candidates, not for coursework candidates. Our MPH or MHA comes under coursework. So we hold a very less chance for scholarship.
Regarding the assistanships, we do get it once we reach there. It depends on your academic credentials and previous work experience. Many of us do get it. So don't worry about it. We can do part time jobs there for our living. 20 hr/wk.
Can we read there along with MHA or MPH? Means even if we do part time jobs (which arr very necessary) then can we give AMC 1 and AMC 2 within 1.5 yrs?
Yes, if you can manage taking MHA /MPH together with AMC exam, I think one can do both exams in 1.5 years. That will totally depend on you.
Tuesday 18th of April 2006 10:59:48 PM (4 years ago)
#18
Here's a couple of posts from Plabotomy's thread which are very informative. The questions are summarized, but Plabotomy's answers aren't. The questions are those with arrows, and the answers just below each question.
--->Can you tell us more about the hospital system in Australia?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Well you can expect to work about 40 hours a week, to be on a FIRST NAME basis with your consultants.
I have been in Queensland for over a month now and I have found to people to be more friendly than in the UK.
I do get a lot more holidays than in the UK and a lot more weekends off.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->1) Which is more advisable, coming to Australia on basis of MPH or AMC exams? Can we get jobs in hospital after AMC part 1? How much do they pay in such jobs?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Australia is short of junior doctors. Period
They are not looking to train you.
So anyone planning to do a PG here is going to find it difficult (but not impossible), for that you would need to be brilliant and have the right backing. They are looking for experienced people.
They prefer PGs or people with TWO years experience from the UK. (It used to be one years UK exp but bcos they know the UK situation they have upped the ante)
Ozs doors are not gonna be open forever bcos its population is a lot less than that of the UK.
I believe Ozs population is around Indias annual growth rate. So the total number of doctors will be a lot less that the UK or the US.
My suggestion would be if you are interested in Oz then be quick about it.
The MPH route or the AMC1 short stay route: the bottom line here is you have to get your AMC through.
Yes people with AMC1 have secured jobs. The disandvantage of the short stay route is that you will have to leave after the AMC1 and hence it will give you less time to actually search for a job![/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->Do I stand a chance in an aon job with 2 years experience?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Depends on where your experience is from.
All surgical specialties are much sought after, because as a surgeon you can have a private practise and make bucket loads of money.
Having said that there is a surgical reg from Zimbabwe working in my hosp. However all she does is clerk patients in. She has not managed to operate an appendix independantly so far bcos of the Patel backlash.
If your exp is Uk or equivalent or an Indian PG then you have good chances.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->Can a 2-year old PLAB results be used as IELTS exemption?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]My PLAB2 certificate says my results are valid for THREE years!!! And I am using that as an examption to the IELTS.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->What is the whole cost for getting into an AONP and is there any other alternative other than the ANOP to get into australia for a fresh graduate?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Add your cost for your medicals, your ticket, registration, EICS clearance, postage and you have got your total costs.
The Australian Govt has recruited agencies and pays them to recruit docs.
Any charges above what I have mentioned and you are being ripped off.
If you are a fresh grad you could get a job after passing the AMC1.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->Can you give some info regarding working condition in Queensland as compared to UK if possible in Psychiatry and Surgery?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Similar working conditions in the UK and here.
You are pretty much doing the same here and in the UK in psych and surg
The cutting experience (or the lack of it) are the same.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
--->How is the situation regarding racial differences in aus?
Racism exists. You can expect it. For those who have worked in the UK it isn't any more or less.
It is more subtle and not in your face. They will be polite but you can notice it. Those horror stories you hear are not true.
--->What is the scope in hospital orthopaedics/trauma posts in Australia?
If you have a PG degree in Ortho then it shouldn't be difficult.
Most of the uncomplicated slabs/ POPs are done in the ED by the ED docs.
You would be left with history taking and retracting in theatre.
YOu should expect cutting until you win their confidence.
Without a PG or UK experience, I would say slim.
I am however not the last word.
I sincerely request you to try applying for jobs yourself or try the AMC1.
It seems like not too long ago I was predicting the doomsday scenario for england
I was immediately labelled as trying to decrease my competition and armchair experts who were not in the UK kept saying jobs in Psychiatry were easy in fact i told one of the moderators (who had passed plab1) not to bother with plab2
the reply was that he wanted to try his luck. Today, he is contemplating on participating in the protest march.
What does the future hold for doctors from the subcontinent in Oz?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Here are a few facts:
Australia is short of junior doctors
The shortage is in towns and the outback (villages)
The shortage is only in certain specialties (non surgical)
The training posts are fully occupied
There is no shortage in cities (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane)
So they created the Area of Need Posts where experienced doctors from overseas could take up posts.
The only way these doctors could get a PR status was passing the AMC exam
Suddenly it became EASY to pass the exam
They accepted anyone with two years experience from the subcontinent or one years experience from UK and similar countries[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
Then Dr Death happened.
Now they accept only postgraduates from the subcontinent
Then the rules changed in the UK.
NOW THEY ARE ASKING FOR TWO YEARS UK EXPERIENCE.
So the shortage of junior doctors exists, the protest march will happen and despite it. Scores of UK IMGs will lose their jobs and they will come to Australia and gradually the no of jobs will decrease.
Where does that leave doctors from the subcontinent who wish to do their PG in Oz?
Lets say a doctor fresh from his internship decided today that he wanted to do his PG in Oz.
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]Heres the time frame (all approximate) :
1.IELTS EXAM 3-6 months
2.AMC 1 (including EICS clearance) atleast 3 months
3. wait for AMC 2 (3-6 months after passing part 1)
3. AMC 2 till results arrive 3 months
So now 12-18 months later he has passed his AMC2
He is now eligible for a JHO post (one year)
then an SHO post (one year)
so three years have passed and he can now become a registrar (ie begin his PG)
If he doesnt succeed he will become a PHO (non training registrar post)
If there is a choice between an Ozzie and an IMG for one training post who do you think will get the post (and it is only fair)[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
In three years if Australia wont have a shortage of doctors anymore
they WILL change the rules.
After talking with senior doctors I have concluded that as of today:
It is easy to enter the Australian training program but UNLESS YOU ARE EXCEPTIONALLY BRILLIANT and lucky it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO PASS THOSE EXAMS (esp the last part).
People will get disillusioned and will move towards the GP program and that will entail a 10 year sabbatical in the outback.
THIS POST IS NOT MEANT TO DISILLUSION ANYONE BUT SIMPLY TO PRESENT FACTS.
The doors in Australia are closing and they are closing fast
Those who go through the MPH route will have to go thru the JHO and SHO before they can apply for training.
Please consider all these facts before coming here
Let there not be another protest march.
--->Does that approximate time frame apply to docs who are 3 or 4 years post MBBS? If someone in that status passes AMC 2 does he/she needs to go through the JHO and SHO post or directy apply for the training post?
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]It all depends on what and where ur Post MBBS experience is. The key is how similar the experience is to the Oz experience.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
eg Psychiatry in Oz is similar to Psychiatry in the UK but the same can't be said about that of the Indian subcontinent.
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]1. One year UK SHOexp= JHO year in Oz
2nd year SHO in UK = SHO year in Oz
hence a person with two years UK experience gets an easy entry into Oz
2. Indian subcontinent PG= 2 years Oz experience
any other experience in the subcontinent (ie non PG) will be difficult to standardise and hence compare[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
In the wake of Dr Death they dont want to take any chances and hence their stringent requirement.
So if your experience is non PG, it will vary from case to case where you start, but in all likelihood you may be asked to start as a JHO and if you are good you may find yourself promoted to an SHO in 6 months and then a PHO if they think you are capable.
I know of a person who has recently come from the UK with one years experience and he got a job as a JHO, this becos they know of the situation in the UK and are being tough.
[tex:78c7cd5fa9]If an outsider with AMC2 comes in and applies for a training post will the relevant college accept him or a person who has worked in the system for two years? The answer is obvious and only fair. Same with hospitals will they rather take in an unknown or train them or will they train a person who has worked with them for two years. The answer is obvious.[/tex:78c7cd5fa9]
Tuesday 18th of April 2006 11:33:34 PM (4 years ago)
#19
Whats the problem with the MPH route?Can't we get good jobs after doing that course?
Depends on what jobs you are talking about. If ur talking about the field of public health, I dont know. Common sense tells me they would prefer australians over non australians. I have no first hand information on job prospects after MPH
What I would suggest is you check in any Oz immigration site and see if Public Health is on the on demand list.
eg Oz is short of accountants, so if you are an MCom getting a PR and a job is no problem.
If it is not then the job prospects would not be great (but not impossible).
You could check with the college you are applying as to what the job prospects in Oz are.
You have to remember that as Overseas student fees are a lot more than domestic student fees and hence they look at the money they make rather than looking as you as a potential employee.
[tex:ded3316c5c]If you are talking about clinical jobs in hospitals then it depends on how desperately short the hospital is of doctors.
The current situation in the UK is that there may be hundreds of doctors with two years or more of UK experience who may find themselves jobless from august. Now if you are a hospital director who is looking for a junior doctor in medicine who would you prefer? An MPH graduate or a doctor who trained in the UK in medicine for two years?
I would think that the current shortage may be filled in august itself. The very fact that the Ozzies are now getting choosy and demanding two years UK experience, instead of the one years UK experience they were requesting a month ago should make matters more obvious.
I doubt the prospects look very encouraging after completing the MPH course if you want to switch over to the clinical field.[/tex:ded3316c5c]
Oz is a huge country alright, infact the sixth biggest landwise, but population wise it ranks 54th. The Uk has thrice as many people as in Australia and that is why they could sustain overseas doctors for so long. Heck even countries like Malaysia/ Iraq/Yemen/ Italy Romania have a higher popluation than Australia . Afghanistan has 10 million more people than Oz. Oz may be more than twice the size of India but it has only 40000 more people than in Sri Lanka which is ranked 55th. So much for sizable population. You may assume that an MBBS with an MPH may be the best man for the job but the Ozzies may be up in arms if the government starts dishing out jobs to foreigners.
It is a supply vs demand situation, today Ozs doors may be open for clinical doctors but the with the developments in the UK these doors wont be open for long.
1. After AMC 1 you can get a job if
[tex:ded3316c5c]
a. your score is among the top ranks and if the hospital has a suitable post, with people having a years UK experience taking up JHO posts the chances are diminishing
b. If you pay money and take up an observership and a job preparatory courses you stand a good chance; These are quite expensive and could work upto thousands of dollars[/tex:ded3316c5c]
2. In India or the UK you could join a PG the day after you finish your internship.
In Oz you have to pay your dues for one to two years before you could think of becoming a PG. The number of training posts are very less than non training posts eg in The emergency department where I work there is one Registrar post and seven PHO (non training) posts. It is a myth that there is a shortage of registrar (training) posts and a fact that there is a shortage of PHO posts. So if you think that it is going to be easy for IMGs to enter training programs think again!!! Again if you have only done internship then after AMC2 you have two undergo a period of supervised training which usually is around one year before you will be granted a full regn and then a PR. That will count as a JHO year, then comes and SHO year and then you will be eligible to enter a training program. Two years hence when Oz is no longer short of doctors do you think it will be any easier for IMGs to get training posts???
3. If there are two training posts and three candidates for the job, the first an Ozzie, the second and IMG who has done his JHO and SHO year and is now a PR and the third an MPH graduate who would you give the job to say if it were a training program in Orthopaedics.
4. I think simply by doing an MPH will not help in any way to get a training job. ON what basis do they give you a training job in medicine/ surgery. etc? because you are a master in Public Health. You will have to check on the job prospects in Public Health yourself. But doing the MPH you can certainly be in Oz and apply for jobs after passing the AMC and that will give you an edge over someone you are competing with who is not in Oz
I am not trying to discourage anyone from entering Oz, but I feel you need know the current situation and make an informed choice, and always have backup plans. It saddens me to see people still taking the PLAB exam when the doors are firmly shut. I personally feel that the doors in Oz are closing soon and for some it may not be practical to take the AMC exam given the UK situation with IMGs. Population wise US has 300 million, Uk has 60 million and Australia has only 20 million. So the population is Oz is not favourable to sustain IMGs for long.
Tuesday 18th of April 2006 11:47:53 PM (4 years ago)
#20
What is the EICS? How long did it take you to sort out the whole process with the EICS?Did you get your temporary registration after the whole EICS was completed?
[tex:aa159c4f67]EICS is a verification system based in the US:
to check your credentials ie to see if you are really who you claim to be or another Dr Death in the making.
It started as a knee jerk reaction to Dr death.
You need the EICS verification for working in certain states and
also if you want to do the AMC exam. So in many ways it is something that you have to do.[/tex:aa159c4f67]
You need EICS clearance to attempt the AMC.
You need to clear the AMC beforeyou become a PR
Only PRs/ citizens can apply for GP training program
You can only become a GP by going thru the training program and passing the exam.
Unless you have passed the exams in the UK in which case you could start working as a GP.
For me the EICS clearance took about three months
Subsequently I got my temporary registration in three weeks
my visa took a further month to come through
[tex:aa159c4f67]EICS clearance depends on
a. the no of applications they receive
b. the speed of despatch
c. by far the most important factor being how fast your college clears you[/tex:aa159c4f67]
I know of one person who hadn't received a clearance after four months
after repeated emails to the EICS he found out that the college hadnt cleared him
He rushed to his college and he had to grease a babus palm for a signature and got his clearance (the babu thinking this paper has come from yumerica where is my cut).
The EICS people will only send it once by guaranteed delivery. Once they know it has arrived they wont pester the college, knowing that if there is something wrong the college wont be in a hurry to reply
for the temporary registration they have sittings at particular times and it how quickly yours gets done all depends on when they receive it and how many folders are above yours.
Again some hospitals in queensland if they are short of manpower they request the board to give you provisional registration subject to EICS clearance. This has happened.
Has anyone been rejected registration?
As far as I know if you have a job offer and have not been naughty in med school you should have no problem with your registration.
Other answers:
[tex:aa159c4f67]After your AMC and your PR, theoretically you can take up a PG.
Again in your case a PG will involve five years from the day u begin ur JHO year.
See PGs from India have begun working as PHOs and have joined the training program.
But they got in bcos they have a PG qualification and they got easily accepted into the PHO post, their bosses liked their work and have backed them to enter the PG program. For you if youve had no PG exp/ UK exp it is most likely that u wud have to start from scratch.[/tex:aa159c4f67]
GP in India is no way similar to GP in Oz so I doubt that your stint as a GP will be recognised in lieu of the GP training here. Remember that once you pass ur exams you may be posted for a few years in the harsh outback, worse than indian villages. The image we have of Oz is of the major cities and that it is a glamorous place. The outback in reality is very sparse and desolate
I know ur eligible for GP training the minute you get ur PR and that training takes atleast three years
If you are an Indian PG you have to start out as a PHO here
I dont think they would dish out a consultants post to a foreigner without testing his mettle first. For anyone applying for a job it easier to start at a lower level, prove urself and climb the ladder.
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