Page 1 of 2: GP application under review

etiger · Credits: 481 My Scrapbook

Hi Everybody,

I did not get into the GP VTS training at Eastern Deanery despite what I thought was a pretty good background on mine part, good references, CV etc. I wrote an email to Dr Hibble who is the head of the GP recruitment

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and explained that the application process in my opinion was not fair as it had the same problems as the specialist application (we couldn't include a CV, in the interview it was very difficult to show one's abilities, pertinent questions were not asked etc). They are currently reviewing my application. The more people write him the more of a chance we have, they might create more training spots for us, so anybody who reads this should email them with the above points.

Good luck everyone!!!!

charleyfarley · Credits: 278 My Scrapbook

The GPVTS assesement is the only fair thing to come out of MTAS.
it has been used over the last 5 years and aims to pick the right doctors not the right CV!

if your eligible, you go to the exam, if your good enough to pass then you go to the assessment centre, if you can speak to a group of fellow doctors and then speak to a patient with some competance you will be offered a job.

its competitive so some people get a job and some don't but everyone has the same chance at assessment.

how a piece of paper (CV) is any better then passing an exam, and then showing evidence that you can speak to both co workers and patients, to me seems pretty fair!

GP selection has been like this for 5 years or so, it has been proven to be fair and pick the right GPs. In some ways it weeds out the doctors who look good on paper but when you actually meet them you realise they can't communicate to either patient or colleague and have major gaps in there medical training/knowledge.

the selection process for GP is the only good thing that has come out of this MTAS shambles.

better luck next time

etiger · Credits: 481 My Scrapbook

sorry, I disagree. The problem is that everybody who has several years of training is able to talk to other physicians at the round table discussion and is able to communicate to patients in an empathatic way. The problem is that there are far more people who can do these very simple tasks than there are GP posts so the decision who gets picked is completely random. I would therefore prefer if previous experience, academic accomplishments, reference letter etc would play a bigger role.

etiger

charleyfarley · Credits: 278 My Scrapbook

i understand you disagree, but to say that selection is random, is that really what you think? you really believe all those examiners are just pick people with a pin?

what do you think your references say? how can they be discriminatory when everyone should say your a good doctor, unless you picked the wrong referee.

Its supply and demand there are not enough GP positions for all doctors that wish to do it, i understand what your saying. By why is seeing you CV and asking about audit or papers any better, then the current system which has been used for the last 5 years, changed every year from FEEDBACK from the doctors that took part in it, during which your medical knowledge, communication skills, and ability to think on your feet is assessed.

Do you not see that for GP the selection is different, because they are looking for a generally rounded doctor. I have mulitple papers, am writing my MD thesis and have just finished working as a medical Reg but decided GP was for me, in the current system none of this counted. Instead everyone is equal as everyone goes through the same assessment; not how well you can write a CV, and to be honest i think it was the fairest interview i have ever been to.

those that have failed GP asssessement need to look at themselves whether it be their eligibility to work or there skills as a doctor not to blame the current assessement. Do you honestly think they are going to change it because someone could not submit there CV or answer a question on audit or risk assessement, interviews are not open ended like they used to be; there now very structured and its all about your ability to regurgitate management crap, i've been their, they are also not very discriminatory?. I understand CV's may be useful for subspecialities to show you commitment papers in your field possibly, but for GP it has to be general, equal and fair and show you can speak to patients! which i think it does.

etiger · Credits: 481 My Scrapbook

it's alright, I think we just disagree. I think the difference is you have a spot I don't. If they had given me a post, I wouldn't have questioned the system as well. I stand by the point that the current system doesn't give the applicants the possibility to distinguish themselves enough from one another just because everyone is going to do it pretty well. I take your point that CVs/letters of recommendation have their own problems but it seems to work in the rest of the world (sorry I currently work as a GP in the US) and there I have never had a problem with it.

etiger

charleyfarley · Credits: 278 My Scrapbook

i see what you mean. though the US does has a system whereby people are assigned to medical jobs based on there performance in similar assessements (MCQ?SAQ). The role of a CV is old school and only for more senior positions and most corporations and major multi-national employers (FBI) use some form of psychological/social/clinical assessments as opposed to relying on a CV and someones recommendation . So your thought of how everyone else in the world gets a proper job is completely misplaced.

this is the UK, this is GPVTS, this is how you get a job, read the rules and play the game or play somewhere else.

melvinsx · Credits: 208 My Scrapbook

I think etiger is a bad loser and his dreams of rocking the boat are both immature and ill informed. The selection proccess has gone through various stages of development and is evidence based. He can get details of the evaluation methods and evidence if he speaks to the research department at the West Midlands Deanery. There are more important issues to be discussed than changing the system so that one persons testimonials can gt him a training post.

misalk · Credits: 964 My Scrapbook

I also feel its not right to say that since someone has got a rotation, they would say the sytem is good and others who have not, shud say its unfair. I am one of the candidates who has not been offered a post and this has happened to me twice and on both occasions after i have cleared the first part.This does not make me think the slightest that the system is unfair, infact everytime I feel that I am not doing well enuff in the second part to be offfered a place. And I completely agree that this is one of the fairest selection processes. Atleast it first judges ur medical knowledge and then ur abilities to talk to patients, which is exactlee what GPs are required to do. Its not just ur CVs and how many publications u have done, which god knows half the people just get their names somehow written in some one else's publications ( i am not saying all the publications are such but i know many such doctors personally).
So atleast there is a system which tests u as a doctor and i feel its VERY FAIR, no doubt about it.
Sorry if someone feels otherwise but offcourse we all can have different opinions.

etiger · Credits: 481 My Scrapbook

calm down, don't take things so personal. I thing it's very funny that you assume that I am a "he". Says a lot about the situation, doesn't it?

kmd · Credits: 114 My Scrapbook

I agree I feel CV should of also pleyed a part in the selection process. Just because a person has messed up in a station it is very unfair that he loses his job specially when he has done very well while at work. Whats the point of keeping a portfolio of every thing you have done, doing audits for every single 4 month posting when no one is going to look at it. Personally i dont think that is fair!

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